| 4 Aug 2022 |
 tpw_rules | i think i mixed my metaphors slightly. i don't intend to put words in his mouth | 03:40:00 |
| tpw_rules | there's also this: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/185078 | 03:42:14 |
| tpw_rules | it's not really fair to characterize python general package updates as "breaking everything all over again" and the notice wouldn't have prevented it. it's just sort of life as being the center of a tangled web of dependencies | 03:43:13 |
 Winter (she/her) | that should be something brought up with the python folks tbh | 03:43:18 |
| Winter (she/her) | exactly | 03:43:20 |
| Winter (she/her) | i'm sure it can be worked around somehow, or things can be put in place | 03:43:31 |
| Winter (she/her) | the python folks are trying to keep up with something so fast moving and prone to breakage, there's only so much they can do without communication | 03:44:00 |
| tpw_rules | like sandro said in the issue, it feels more like there's a disconnect (which i don't know about) between the general python maintainers and cuda maintainers, and the best and most prompt solution might be to downgrade the service level | 03:44:06 |
| Winter (she/her) | * the python folks are trying to keep up with something so fast moving and prone to breakage, there's only so much they can do | 03:44:09 |
| Winter (she/her) | precisely yeah | 03:44:21 |
| tpw_rules | i.e. focus on the packages around ZHF and accept that they're not stable and might take lots of work to get going if you follow unstable | 03:44:33 |
| Winter (she/her) | (well the latter doesn't apply to samuela since he's a maintainer, so he kinda has to keep up in that regard) | 03:45:12 |
| Winter (she/her) | (hope that doesn't sound rude, not trying to be) | 03:45:27 |
| tpw_rules | well that's the question, does he? | 03:45:35 |
| tpw_rules | there's too much value here to just give up, but the small focus and large effort might warrant saying that as the maintainer of this particular ecosystem | 03:46:38 |
| tpw_rules | idk if it's simpler to sort of batch fixes like that, the hope is that these headaches will be discovered and worked out by other distros | 03:47:05 |
| tpw_rules | and upstream collaboration/natural progression | 03:47:56 |
| tpw_rules | maybe more of a defined maintenance interval. i saw another discussion today at automatically marking packages as broken if they don't build for 3 months and stable releases are every 6 months | 03:50:07 |
| tpw_rules | but on the other hand "i logged into my system and upgraded my nixpkgs and now i can't do my job" as a daily occurrence seems to me like upgrading less frequently is a reasonable solution. i'm not sure how often this actually happens though, but it's definitely not rare | 03:50:59 |
| tpw_rules | i also feel a lot of breakages with my nixos-m1 work and cross compilation. i try to do a release and oh whoops some random commit no one thought much of broke everything. at least it's not a job thing but it's still frustrating | 03:52:31 |
| tpw_rules | but it not being a job thing it's easy for me to frame it internally as a health evaluation and to try again next week and see if it's still broken, or take a bit of time to file reports. that way it's more reliable for people for whom it IS a job thing | 03:54:00 |
| Winter (she/her) | yeah | 03:54:17 |
| Winter (she/her) | i do think a way forward could start with talking to the python folks, to figure that stuff out; if this is a frequent enough occurrence, it's definitely worth a shot. | 03:55:11 |
| Winter (she/her) | anyways i've said that like three times now so | 03:55:26 |
| tpw_rules | from what i understand that's happened before but i don't know if it went anywhere and i'm not sure why. maybe there needs to be a mediator | 03:56:02 |
| tpw_rules | * from what i understand (e.g. what sandro said on the issue) that's happened before but i don't know if it went anywhere and i'm not sure why. maybe there needs to be a mediator | 03:56:17 |
| tpw_rules | i have seen some messages here from some of the nixpkgs python maintainers as heads ups but idk if samuela saw them or they were helpful | 03:57:10 |
| tpw_rules | in any case, it's about my bedtime. thanks for your input | 03:57:47 |
| tpw_rules | (another semi-related case i just remembered, https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/174072#discussion_r879694247 . i don't love the idea of having a bot update those libimobiledevice packages for safety reasons and the fact that they're all a tightly integrated set, maybe some cuda stuff can get added to that list too) | 04:00:28 |
| tpw_rules | or a better method than a list in some repo no one's ever heard of :P | 04:00:40 |
