| 4 Dec 2025 |
 Capypara | ah okay! I thought those landed already, thanks! | 17:18:16 |
 leona | As nobody built something else, they need a full stdenv rebuild on darwin | 17:18:52 |
| Capypara | ah! I see | 17:19:08 |
 Randy Eckenrode | Darwin tries not to pull too much, but it needs Python during its bootstrap, which makes Python-related fixes into full rebuilds. | 19:23:11 |
 kfiz | Yes. | 22:25:52 |
| kfiz | I'll try this. Thanks. | 22:26:53 |
 toonn | .oO(Does Pypy change less often and is it capable enough?) | 23:07:28 |
| toonn | (Just an intrusive thought : )) | 23:07:47 |
| Randy Eckenrode | It’s a few versions behind CPython. The bootstrap story doesn’t look too bad. We would have to replace the top-level Python during the bootstrap. | 23:11:51 |
| Randy Eckenrode | There’s enough stuff that depends on CPython that updates have to go through staging anyway. It doesn’t seem worth the effort. | 23:12:29 |
| Randy Eckenrode | So PyPy, Rust, Go, Haskell, and what else all bootstrap from an upstream binary? | 23:14:01 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Bootstrapping Swift from source seems like doing it on hard mode. | 23:14:20 |
| toonn | Doesn't everything? Guix has GCC all the way from Mes but I don't think Nixpkgs does anything similar? | 23:15:45 |
| toonn | I think with Swift the idea was more that since it's so recent it wasn't as difficult? | 23:16:23 |
| Randy Eckenrode | nixpkgs doesn’t have it yet, but there is work being done on a minimal bootstrap. | 23:16:35 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Swift assumes you have a Swift compiler handy. They restored building a C++-only bootstrap compiler, but it’s still buggy, and it doesn’t appear to be an intended bootstrap path on Darwin. | 23:17:43 |
| Randy Eckenrode | * | 23:17:54 |
| toonn | Self-hosting is fairly recent for Swift though, no? | 23:18:59 |
| Randy Eckenrode | I did eventually get the point of having a functional enough compiler to build a full Swift. I just have to remember from last time how I solved that @_noLock error. | 23:19:04 |
| Randy Eckenrode | The Swift Compiler Driver is at least five years old, but it’s not required (yet). Macros were the first time a Swift compiler was required for the bootstrap. They’re only a couple of years old. | 23:27:21 |
| Randy Eckenrode | But in a couple of years Swift went from only needing a C++ compiler to also needing a Swift compiler. | 23:27:51 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Writing Swift in Swift makes sense, but it makes a fully source-based bootstrap difficult (especially with how annoying it is to build). | 23:29:14 |
| Randy Eckenrode | I could do Swift 5.10.1 via a private scope the compiler uses to build, but I’d also have to pin the SDK version to make it happen. | 23:30:45 |
| Randy Eckenrode | * | 23:31:00 |
| 5 Dec 2025 |
| Randy Eckenrode | I think I disabled the bootstrapping mode, which isn’t supported anymore. | 04:05:49 |
| Randy Eckenrode | If I forcibly replace the bootstrapping0 compiler with the one from the bootstrap compiler, it works. That’s not very reassuring. | 04:39:09 |
| kfiz | Meh.
| 07:13:24 |
| kfiz | * Meh.
error: builder for '/nix/store/ixgbybg1is313l7vwv0vizdkcag16k1w-dovecot-2.4.2.drv' failed with exit code 2;
last 25 log lines:
> /nix/store/rrjy7x4jpxp92gs1prpbg79ng0mcl5hj-apple-sdk-14.4/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX.sdk/usr/include/secure/_string.h:62:9: note: previous definition is here
> 62 | #define memcpy(dest, ...) \
> | ^
> 1 warning generated.
> 1 warning generated.
> CCLD libcharset.la
> CCLD test-charset
> Undefined symbols for architecture arm64:
> "_iconv", referenced from:
> _iconv_charset_to_utf8_reset in libcharset.a(charset-iconv.o)
> _iconv_charset_to_utf8 in libcharset.a(charset-iconv.o)
> (maybe you meant: _charset_iconv)
> "_iconv_close", referenced from:
> _iconv_charset_to_utf8_end in libcharset.a(charset-iconv.o)
> "_iconv_open", referenced from:
> _iconv_charset_to_utf8_begin in libcharset.a(charset-iconv.o)
> ld: symbol(s) not found for architecture arm64
> clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
> make[3]: *** [Makefile:582: test-charset] Fehler 1
> make[3]: Verzeichnis „/nix/var/nix/builds/nix-build-dovecot-2.4.2.drv-0/b/dovecot-2.4.2/src/lib-charset“ wird verlassen
> make[2]: *** [Makefile:600: all-recursive] Fehler 1
> make[2]: Verzeichnis „/nix/var/nix/builds/nix-build-dovecot-2.4.2.drv-0/b/dovecot-2.4.2/src“ wird verlassen
> make[1]: *** [Makefile:733: all-recursive] Fehler 1
> make[1]: Verzeichnis „/nix/var/nix/builds/nix-build-dovecot-2.4.2.drv-0/b/dovecot-2.4.2“ wird verlassen
> make: *** [Makefile:575: all] Fehler 2
For full logs, run 'nix log /nix/store/ixgbybg1is313l7vwv0vizdkcag16k1w-dovecot-2.4.2.drv'.
| 07:13:54 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Upstream bug that detects but doesn’t properly link libiconv. You can try to figure out why or just add -liconv to NIX_LDFLAGS. | 11:32:56 |
|  adam 🎔 joined the room. | 11:47:36 |
