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“There are still many issues with the Darwin platform but most of it is quite usable.” — http://yves.gnu-darwin.org189 Servers

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27 Nov 2025
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeNo, they’re removed to limit what we’re distributing from the SDK to headers and stubs since those are arguably necessary for interoperability. Most of those man pages should be obtainable from the source releases.20:41:31
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode We could possibly smuggle them in via the empty darwin.libSystem derivation. 20:41:59
28 Nov 2025
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeI’ve picked my Swift work back up. I’m trying to make the versioning of the LLVM fork more accurate to what Apple uses. The source is LLVM 19.1.5, but the version reported is 17.0.0. That’s probably going to make dealing with the overrides a lot of fun.16:27:47
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode

The new, scope-based LLVM is so much nicer to override. There’s still jank, but I don’t have to do anything to handle build vs. host vs. target packages.


(llvmPackages_19.override {
  officialRelease = {
    version = "19.1.5"; # From https://github.com/swiftlang/llvm-project/blob/swift-$swiftVersion-RELEASE/cmake/Modules/LLVMVersion.cmake
  };

  monorepoSrc = fetchFromGitHub {
    owner = "swiftlang";
    repo = "llvm-project";
    tag = "swift-${lib.getVersion swift}-RELEASE";
    hash = "sha256-DahdGT8VMBOXuwfhtXIJGFJmmhzzoQ6NdpU2CDs5B/s=";
  };

  otherSplices = generateSplicesForMkScope [
    "swiftPackages"
    "llvmPackages"
  ];
}).overrideScope
  (
    _: prev: {
      version = "17.0.0"; # From https://github.com/swiftlang/swift/blob/swift-$swiftVersion-RELEASE/utils/build_swift/build_swift/defaults.py#L51
    }
  )
17:26:02
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode *

The new, scope-based LLVM is so much nicer to override. There’s still jank, but I don’t have to do anything to handle build vs. host vs. target packages.

let
  swiftlangLlvmVersion = "17.0.0"; # From https://github.com/swiftlang/swift/blob/swift-$swiftVersion-RELEASE/utils/build_swift/build_swift/defaults.py#L51
  llvmVersion = "19.1.5"; # From https://github.com/swiftlang/llvm-project/blob/swift-$swiftVersion-RELEASE/cmake/Modules/LLVMVersion.cmake
in
(llvmPackages_19.override {
  officialRelease = { version = llvmVersion; };

  monorepoSrc = fetchFromGitHub {
    owner = "swiftlang";
    repo = "llvm-project";
    tag = "swift-${lib.getVersion swift}-RELEASE";
    hash = "sha256-DahdGT8VMBOXuwfhtXIJGFJmmhzzoQ6NdpU2CDs5B/s=";
  };

  otherSplices = generateSplicesForMkScope [
    "swiftPackages"
    "llvmPackages"
  ];
}).overrideScope
  (
    _: prev: {
      version = swiftlangLlvmVersion;
      release_version = llvmVersion;
    }
  )
17:30:48
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeThe weird version overrides are because of the way LLVM captures the version.17:31:14
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeI want the package version to match the one advertised by Swift. Ideally, I could it to build LLVM, but that would really break the patches.17:32:44
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode * 17:32:52
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode * 17:33:15
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode (This means the Swift clang will print 19.1.5 for its version instead of 17.0.0.) 17:34:26
@samasaur:matrix.orgsamasaurexciting!20:44:08
@samasaur:matrix.orgsamasaurdo let me know if i can help at all20:44:12
@sarahec:matrix.orgSarah Clark I have a weird build error that I'm trying to fix. python3Packages.torchtune crashes in importsCheckPhase when it imports python3Packages.sentencepiece on Darwin. I've confirmed that other python packages that depend on sentencepiece fail in the same way, but not if it's only used as a check dependency. The final weirdness: nix-build of sentencepiece picks up a prebuilt package, but calling it with --check shows a non-deterministic build. 21:05:19
@sarahec:matrix.orgSarah ClarkConsole.app is how I first depetermined its sentencepiece21:05:51
@sarahec:matrix.orgSarah Clark* Console.app is how I first determined it's sentencepiece that's failing21:07:08
@sarahec:matrix.orgSarah Clark
21:12:23
@sarahec:matrix.orgSarah Clark* error: derivation 'rj3n6mm11f90ssv0az0aplkiy9b2s48l-python3.13-sentencepiece-0.2.1.drv' may not be deterministic: outputs differ output '/nix/store/cpjk1gyzyz6j18jxfpsswdd0rggyzjah-python3.13-sentencepiece-0.2.1' differs21:12:29
@sarahec:matrix.orgSarah Clark * 
error: derivation 'rj3n6mm11f90ssv0az0aplkiy9b2s48l-python3.13-sentencepiece-0.2.1.drv' may not be deterministic: outputs differ
         output '/nix/store/cpjk1gyzyz6j18jxfpsswdd0rggyzjah-python3.13-sentencepiece-0.2.1' differs
21:24:35
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeThat’s expected on Darwin.21:48:53
@sarahec:matrix.orgSarah ClarkThe non-deterministic build?22:03:27
@sarahec:matrix.orgSarah ClarkOr the sentencepiece crash? (In which case I would mark Darwin as a bad platform)22:03:52
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeThis.22:08:35
@sarahec:matrix.orgSarah ClarkOK, so it's non-causal.22:09:25
@sarahec:matrix.orgSarah Clark

Here's the import crash:

0   ???                           	               0x0 ???
1   libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103b950d8 state_fini + 228
2   libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103b92828 _sre_SRE_Pattern_match + 712
3   libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x1038a3cd0 method_vectorcall_FASTCALL_KEYWORDS_METHOD + 188
4   libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x1038938c8 PyObject_VectorcallMethod + 168
5   libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x1039f242c check_matched + 112
6   libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x1039eebb8 warn_explicit + 1368
7   libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x1039f120c do_warn + 176
8   libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x1039ee158 PyErr_WarnFormat + 108
9   libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x10395549c _PyType_FromMetaclass_impl + 3940
10  _sentencepiece.cpython-313-darwin.so	       0x12a79e4a4 SwigPyPacked_TypeOnce() + 104
11  _sentencepiece.cpython-313-darwin.so	       0x12a77e738 PyInit__sentencepiece + 1244
12  libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103ab0c38 _PyImport_RunModInitFunc + 100
13  libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103aac6e0 import_run_extension + 192
14  libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103aaf490 _imp_create_dynamic + 536
15  libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103916d54 cfunction_vectorcall_FASTCALL + 280
16  libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103a46eb0 _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault + 13948
-------- RECURSION LEVEL 9
17  libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103893dc4 object_vacall + 428
18  libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103893ac4 PyObject_CallMethodObjArgs + 124
19  libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103aaa164 PyImport_ImportModuleLevelObject + 3048
20  libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103a3b90c builtin___import__ + 316
21  libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103916e68 cfunction_vectorcall_FASTCALL_KEYWORDS + 148
22  libpython3.13.dylib           	       0x103a46eb0 _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault + 13948
-------- RECURSION LEVEL 8
22:09:42
@sarahec:matrix.orgSarah ClarkLooking through sentencepiece's issues, they finger SWIG as the culprit (potentially fixed in SWIG 4.4.0). There may be a patch to apply in the meantime without bumping SWIG.23:20:51
29 Nov 2025
@sarahec:matrix.orgSarah ClarkI'll just link the ongoing saga here https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/46609200:41:37
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode 
ninja: error: 'stdlib/public/core/SwiftMacros', needed by 'stdlib/public/core/OSX/arm64/Swift.o', missing and no known rule to make it

🤨

01:13:02
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode Oh, you have to explicitly disable SWIFT_ENABLE_SWIFT_IN_SWIFT now to get the C++-only compiler. 01:30:53
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode 
/nix/var/nix/builds/nix-build-swift-6.2.1.drv-0/b/swift/stdlib/toolchain/Compatibility56/include/Concurrency/VoucherShims.h:73:3: error: 'os_release' is only available on macOS 10.10 or newer >
02:27:20
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeLooks like I’m also hitting unguarded availability errors. 🫠02:27:50

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