| 30 Nov 2025 |
 Randy Eckenrode | So I think build the C++ only compiler then immediately use that to build a compiler with macro support. Use that to build early swift-driver and do a final build of the compiler. | 14:24:14 |
|  sdier left the room. | 15:36:35 |
 emily | sorry for my limited availability recently, will try to catch up on my GitHub backlog soon; let me know if there is anything high-priority for review | 17:33:33 |
| Randy Eckenrode | https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/463900 would be nice to make overriding LLVM actually work correctly on Darwin. It’s not high priority, but it’s a nice cleanup. | 17:37:10 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Why is Bison failing to build since I updated my staging branch? 🤨 | 21:29:05 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Oh. I updated darwin.libcxx to the one from the 26.0 SDK. Is this some stupid libc++ thing that breaks Bison? | 21:30:15 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Redacted or Malformed Event | 22:08:42 |
| Randy Eckenrode | It was the libc++ hardening. It breaks with libc++ 20 or newer. | 23:58:32 |
| 1 Dec 2025 |
| Randy Eckenrode | I think I’m going to have to package Swift 5.10.1. The C++ bootstrap compiler is useless. | 03:14:09 |
| Randy Eckenrode | This sucks because eventually the 14.4 SDK will be dropped, so what happens then? | 03:15:36 |
| emily | have you reported the bootstrapping issues upstream? | 03:44:01 |
| emily | I assume that the C++ compiler will become more useful over time | 03:44:14 |
| Randy Eckenrode | The problem is the 26.0 SDK exposes macros unconditionally, which the C++ bootstrap compiler can’t support because swift-syntax is written in Swift. | 04:12:08 |
| Randy Eckenrode | It appears to be working with the 14.4 SDK, but that makes me nervous about the long term maintainability. | 04:12:43 |
| Randy Eckenrode | emily: FYI, KosmicKrisp works with mpv and Wine. It doesn’t implement all the features yet that DXVK requires, but they will eventually. | 04:49:23 |
| Randy Eckenrode | SwiftPM 6.2 requires Swift Build. That’s lovely. | 14:17:54 |
 toonn | Welcome back, emily : ) | 14:20:25 |
| toonn | RandyEckenrode: Can you explain again why an extra intermediate Swift compiler doesn't work? I get wanting to avoid it but relying on the older SDK doesn't seem like a great workaround. | 14:22:22 |
| Randy Eckenrode | The problem (using the 26.0 SDK, which I stopped doing for now) is that going from Swift with no macro support to Swift with macro support requires a compiler with macro support, but all you have is one with no macro support. | 14:31:22 |
| toonn | Oh, what. And 5.10.1 is the missing link non-macro compiler supporting compiling a macro compiler? | 14:32:07 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Yes, but it requires the 14.4 SDK. | 14:41:38 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Fortunately, the 14.4 SDK does appear to work with Swift 6.2, so I’m doing that instead of building Swift 5.10.1. | 14:42:24 |
| toonn | Is the bootstrap compiler basically frozen or an active project? | 14:43:25 |
| Randy Eckenrode | The issue is more that our update plans involve removing the 14.4 SDK next year. | 14:44:14 |
| Randy Eckenrode | We may end up having to start from a binary bootstrap compiler. | 14:45:53 |
|  matthewcroughan changed their profile picture. | 14:59:06 |
 dotlambda | We might want to add some functionality to desktopToDarwinBundle:
https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/466480 | 16:58:00 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Yeah. There is more it can do. We can also drop the pre-11.0 workarounds too. | 17:05:30 |
| emily | isn't this something the bootstrap compiler could handle by ignoring the macros or such? | 17:10:50 |
| emily | the fact that the bootstrap compiler is being actively worked on implies that it's meant to be useful for something, no? | 17:11:03 |
