| 7 Jan 2026 |
 emily | I'm wary of making explicit copyright/licensing assertions here though. free is generic enough to hopefully be fine | 15:52:59 |
| emily | btw there are like, thousands of packages without licenses tagged in the tree | 15:53:15 |
| emily | would be good to fix, but we definitely have way more dubious stuff than the SDK | 15:53:35 |
| emily | until last release we accidentally had entire encumbered Android system images gigabytes big getting pushed into the cache 🫣 | 15:54:22 |
 eveeifyeve | 💀 | 15:55:58 |
| emily | FWIW preemptively: the Windows SDK has many proprietary binaries that would need to be stripped (like MSVC) for similar arguments to apply there, as well as DLLs (LIB import libraries for those DLLs should not be copyrightable, but not every LIB is an import library), and I believe it also has a lot of C++ which is much more likely to contain substantial copyrightable program logic in header files | 15:56:46 |
| emily | and I believe that those DLLs are things you actually need to redistribute for programs to work rather than being able to use them from the OS like macOS system APIs | 15:57:30 |
 Randy Eckenrode | Doesn’t MinGW and Wine provide potential, alternative SDK options? | 15:57:35 |
| emily | UCRT comes with the system, but the non-U runtime wouldn't fall under all of this | 15:57:59 |
| Randy Eckenrode | True, but isn’t UCRT preferred now? | 15:58:17 |
| eveeifyeve | We have permission to redistrobute it however the program requires you to accept the license. | 15:58:21 |
| emily | to an extent. MinGW is not ABI-compatible or header-compatible. the reason I'm discussing this is because I brought up Windows SDK licensing in the past which I assume led to this | 15:58:48 |
| eveeifyeve | * We have permission to redistribute it, however the program requires you to accept the license hinse why we have config.config.microsoftVisualStudioLicenseAccepted becoming an option. | 15:59:23 |
| emily | can you cite the licence wording granting third parties permission to redistribute the Windows SDK in its entirety? | 15:59:51 |
| emily | it should be possible to strip down the Windows SDK similarly, I am just not sure how useful the resulting thing would be. it should suffice to get you headers and linker stubs to compile things with Clang for UCRT | 16:02:27 |
| emily | but certainly wouldn't cover MSVC itself or any binary code in DLLs | 16:02:57 |
| eveeifyeve | you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways. For more information, see www.microsoft.com/licensing.
You may not
work around any technical limitations in the software;
reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, or attempt to do so, except and only to the extent required by third party licensing terms governing use of certain open source components that may be included with the software;
remove, minimize, block or modify any notices of Microsoft or its suppliers;
use the software in any way that is against the law; or
share, publish, rent or lease the software, or provide the software as a stand-alone hosted as solution for others to use.
One user may use copies of the software to develop and test their applications.
| 16:07:36 |
| eveeifyeve | Under https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/license-terms/mt644918/ | 16:07:54 |
| emily | that's not a licence to redistribute at all | 16:08:31 |
| emily | (FWIW it's also about MSVC rather than the general SDK which I believe has a separate licence) | 16:09:50 |
| eveeifyeve | But that is not free license listed under windows.sdk and there is also an explisit config option which should comply with the license, no? | 16:10:04 |
| eveeifyeve | Also we are distributing MSVC SDK and Windows CRT not msvc the tool it self. | 16:11:10 |
| eveeifyeve | Probably better to move this to #windows:nixos.org | 16:11:30 |
 kdn | meh I'm getting that wrapProgram error again, this time it actually is correct path & line:
/nix/store/zgpcahpdddc0r1vk7qx4i1mf7dsylb2l-wrap-python-hook/nix-support/setup-hook: line 117: wrapProgram: command not found
| 16:13:01 |
| emily | right, I'm just saying that the arguments for apple-sdk don't transfer over to the Windows SDK without some work and potentially limiting the functionality substantially | 16:19:14 |
| emily | as non-free ~anything goes | 16:19:28 |
| eveeifyeve | can you put a summary of the details in the licencing pr so I can link back to it? | 16:38:17 |
|  Matthew Hiles joined the room. | 17:23:17 |
| emily | I don't have time to author stuff about this as it's not a priority for me, sorry. I'm just explaining what would make sense to me from a review PoV | 18:29:56 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Does the Foundation have access to legal resources? This is an area where if we probably want someone with the appropriate knowledge and experience to advise us on what to do. | 18:32:04 |
