!lheuhImcToQZYTQTuI:nixos.org

Nix on macOS

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“There are still many issues with the Darwin platform but most of it is quite usable.” — http://yves.gnu-darwin.org202 Servers

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22 May 2026
@hexa:lossy.networkhexayeah, with certainty21:11:12
@hexa:lossy.networkhexa 1.94.x -> 1.95.0 21:11:19
@hexa:lossy.networkhexaI have no capacity to take care of that21:11:33
@hexa:lossy.networkhexahttps://paste.lossy.network/WSLLAOC4XUVLMMIS2R7L4SSILY21:26:20
@hexa:lossy.networkhexahttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=204182521:31:06
@hexa:lossy.networkhexafiled21:31:09
@9hp71n:matrix.orgghpzinLooks a lot like: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2038918 except it is a different type and platform21:38:32
23 May 2026
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeStage is open for breaking changes again, right? What’s our timeline on dropping x86_64-darwin support?00:41:13
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode * 00:41:22
@not-jack:matrix.org@not-jack:matrix.org left the room.09:17:46
@hexa:lossy.networkhexaemily wanted to be pinged 3 days before the new staging-next opens up iirfc12:08:14
@hexa:lossy.networkhexaRedacted or Malformed Event12:08:17
@hexa:lossy.networkhexaRedacted or Malformed Event12:08:21
@lrsauvette:sauvette.de@lrsauvette:sauvette.de left the room.15:40:54
@bryan.bennett:matrix.org@bryan.bennett:matrix.org left the room.18:23:15
24 May 2026
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily I have the core changes all ready to go, yeah (and open PRs already). the WIP stuff I wanted a few days notice for is just finishing triaging stuff that dropping a platform regresses (e.g. a lot of binary packages have update scripts that will break when x86_64-darwin does) – I have commits for it but they're messy. 18:01:10
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily

I did want us to resolve the Wine question though. carving out just that package and its revdep tree would be easy / minimal maintenance and builder load, especially if we drop it as soon as it poses issues or we have a viable replacement and if some of the Linux-centric deps can be dropped. it's just slightly awkward timing – I suspect that CrossOver is going to come out with something during the macOS 27 lifetime given their collaboration with Apple and the Rosetta changes coming in macOS 28. having a period between now and then where macOS users can't get an up-to-date / supported Wine at all feels a bit unfortunate.

it's just a matter of whether I drop the few changes that would need to be elided to carve out a pkgs.wine specifically a la Mesa while keeping everything else behind the error/not-being-built gate. (I could see if we can do it via cross too, which would cut out even more of the support/builds.)

18:05:50
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyI was really hoping that we'd have a working native Wine + FEX/Rosetta situation by now tbh18:07:05
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeThe macOS incompatibilities are going to be a blocker unless Apple does something.18:52:18
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeThough in addition to the entitlement, it’s possible Apple may just tell developers to test with GPTK in a macOS 27 VM. Since it’s not intended for production use, that might be “good enough” for whatever they’re supposed to use it for.18:53:01
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeMaybe we’ll find out more at WWDC. It would certainly be helpful to know how exactly older games are expected to work in the future.18:54:11
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilythose incompatibilities are about running native Windows ARM code though, they're not necessarily a blocker to emulating x86 apps (but since CodeWeavers announced years ago they'd be ready when Rosetta 2 gets dropped and since Apple have specifically signalled legacy games as something the remaining Rosetta 2 is going to be there to support, I think there's pretty much a guarantee that something gets worked out, or already has been behind the scenes)18:54:45
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeThe emulation is implemented Windows-side in Wine, so you need to be able to run native Windows on ARM to use FEX.18:55:43
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily

my best guess is

I would vaguely guess that the future for Rosetta 2 looks either like special codesigning exemptions, or there being APIs for running Intel code but you can't have a full-blown Intel Mach-O binary getting loaded normally. we do know that it at least involves some frameworks being able to interoperate with x86 code at least.

maybe leaning towards the latter at this point… I think Apple would love to be able to drop support from the system frameworks and shrink the download. I always read "Beyond this timeframe, we will keep a subset of Rosetta functionality aimed at supporting older unmaintained gaming titles, that rely on Intel-based frameworks." as meaning Intel-based .frameworks, but I wonder if "Intel-based framework" is actually a euphemism for "Wine".

18:56:20
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilysure, but CodeWeavers employ a bunch of Wine devs, and they've also done stuff like e.g. make 32-bit x86 code keep working post-Catalina by shimming stuff themselves18:56:55
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyso making it work differently seems well within the kind of thing they've done in the past. whether it'll make its way to upstream Wine – not sure…18:57:16
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeSupporting Wine but not actual Mac games that are stuck on x86_64 seems crazy.18:57:39
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily I think there's zero chance that Wine just completely breaks by macOS 28 though. Apple might not care that much about games, but CrossOver is a pretty big deal. 18:58:10
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyand if they were willing to let it die then they wouldn't need any Rosetta 2 carve-out at all tbh18:58:27
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyslimming it down to the core ISA emulation because Wine already handles adapting the system APIs makes a lot of sense from a reducing maintenance burden perspective too18:58:50

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