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Nix on macOS

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“There are still many issues with the Darwin platform but most of it is quite usable.” — http://yves.gnu-darwin.org205 Servers

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15 May 2026
@hexa:lossy.networkhexaRedacted or Malformed Event00:35:10
@hexa:lossy.networkhexaRedacted or Malformed Event00:35:18
@hexa:lossy.networkhexawill probably post graphs in a few days00:35:30
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyit'll become pretty inadequate by the end of the year at least given security support :) it sounds like CrossOver is working on whatever the post-"full Rosetta 2" thing will be (OS API that lets you run x86 code but without natively loading Mach-Os, maybe?), I just wonder if that will land in Wine in a timely manner00:51:13
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeWhat’s the threat model for Wine? We don’t devendor the stuff it bundles. Those would still be updated with Wine updates. To exploit a vulnerability in one of the native libraries, Windows applications would have to be written to do that, which seems very unlikely.03:17:01
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeWhat’s Codeweavers doing for post-Rosetta 2?03:18:05
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeThe comments from the Wine developers make it sound like Apple will have to provide something they can use to get around restrictions in macOS that prevent ARM64 Wine from working.03:21:03
@fgaz:matrix.orgfgaz Can somebody try to build this on darwin? https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/514653 Ofborg is not picking it up 12:35:01
@fgaz:matrix.orgfgazRedacted or Malformed Event12:35:37
16 May 2026
@bluequantum:matrix.orgLouie Chou joined the room.01:59:52
@viraptor:tchncs.deviraptor So I'm planning to take over xcbuild to fix it up a bit and enable swift-build. Reviews welcome:
https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/520945
14:42:55
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily

well, at least by the end of the year it'll stop getting Wine updates entirely, which is potentially unfun from a pure functionality/features PoV if the problems with getting it working on aarch64-darwin haven't been solved by then. (I do think there are relevant security concerns: e.g. it pulls in TLS libraries and heavyweight media libraries, and has a pretty large attack surface itself as an OS API implementation. though people are mostly running fairly trusted code with it, yeah, and a Wine-only exploit is probably not that compelling for most attackers.)

I don't think CodeWeavers have said anything very concrete. their app itself is universal now, but contains Wine binaries and dylibs that are Intel-only; I would vaguely guess that the future for Rosetta 2 looks either like special codesigning exemptions, or there being APIs for running Intel code but you can't have a full-blown Intel Mach-O binary getting loaded normally. we do know that it at least involves some frameworks being able to interoperate with x86 code at least.

I think the thing about AArch64 Wine on macOS was related to running a native AArch64 Wine to run AArch64 Windows binaries with, right? it seems possible to me that a "Rosetta-only" build of Wine might avoid that, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what CodeWeavers is targeting.

I think it would be pretty low cost for us to treat it like i686-linux and just maintain the bare minimum required to build up to Wine until it becomes a hassle, especially if we can drop some of the questionable-looking stuff (e.g. we surely don't need SDL or curses support, and if we could do without FFmpeg or GStreamer that'd significantly trim down the closure) and/or do it as cross from aarch64-darwin. just a matter of making that judgement call.

18:35:12
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily btw, are we targeting the SDK/source release bumps for after the branch-off? it's in the freeze period, staging is already branched off, and master is like a day away from doing so, so I'm a bit hesitant to try and land that stuff for 26.05 18:35:56
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeI was going to do a backport, but I could drop the label. I don’t feel strongly about it.18:37:22
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeI use GStreamer in my FFXIV derivation. It’s required by something for some reason.18:38:03
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeEnd of Wine updates is just the nature of Apple’s platform transitions.18:40:55
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeThe problem with running Wine natively is explained in that Bugzilla issue I linked on Discourse. macOS does not (normally) all ARM64 processes to use the X18 register or map memory in the lower 1 GiB. Both are needed to support Windows ARM64 applications.18:41:06
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeApple hasn’t signal whether or how they will try to accommodate that. If they do, my guess is it will require a special entitlement.18:41:58
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeWe also don’t know how Rosetta 2 will support only ‘older`, ‘unmaintained’ games. For all we know, they’ll run a version of macOS 27 in a VM.18:43:12
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeAt some point, I expect Apple to stop supporting TSO in hardware for Intel emulation. Rosetta 2 will eventually be dropped. I would be surprised if Apple maintains it indefinitely.18:44:40
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyright, but if you don't care about ARM64 applications then that's not necessarily an obstacle to running x86 ones, right?18:49:36
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyI imagine CodeWeavers cares very little about running actual ARM64 Windows apps, because there basically aren't any18:49:55
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeWhat can an attacker control? The most common uses are playing games and running Windows-only applications. An attacker would have to convince a user to run untrusted input that exploits both Wine and its native libraries, or you might attack the user’s computer if you can get their IP address. If you’re socially engineering the user, you might as well just install regular old malware.18:50:31
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyI do wonder if they're going to make any judgements to GPTK18:50:39
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode (Maybe users might have a problem if they’re browsing the open web using a browser under Wine, but that’s nuts.) 18:51:14
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy EckenrodeIf DXMT gets good enough DX12 support (or KosmicKrisp can run whatever the Vulkan DX12 layer is), I can see Apple’s retiring the D3D part of GPTK. The one that actually matters is the shader converter, which I assume already supports aarch64-darwin.18:53:57
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode * (Maybe users might have a problem if they’re browsing the open web using a browser under Wine, but that’s nuts. Why would they do that?) 18:54:49
@reckenrode:matrix.orgRandy Eckenrode * (Maybe users might have a problem if they’re browsing the open web using a browser under Wine, but why would they do that?) 18:55:07
17 May 2026
@hexa:lossy.networkhexacan anyone say with certainty what happens to ssh keys after running startosinstall?15:08:20
@hexa:lossy.networkhexaRedacted or Malformed Event15:08:25

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