| 16 Oct 2025 |
 jade_ | yeah but also i really hate the idea of fb owning the lix build system, in spite of working on one of the largest non-fb installations of buck2 at work and having a generally pretty good experience with it :P | 19:05:58 |
| jade_ | like, it's got governance issues up there with some of the worst projects out there | 19:06:15 |
| jade_ | * like, it's got governance issues up there with some of the worst projects out there by being straight up non-negotiably owned by fb | 19:06:28 |
| jade_ | * like, it's got governance issues up there with some of the worst projects out there by being straight up non-negotiably owned by fb. but the maintainers are lovely people. so idk. | 19:06:38 |
| jade_ | but indeed, i am a meson hater, i just don't know if there's any better alternatives that actually care about the distro use case | 19:07:17 |
 just1602 | Fork buck2, called it luck, and put it under lix governance ! :D | 19:10:34 |
 rosssmyth | Yeah. I totally get it. I know one of the buck2 devs and great guy. I've never used it cause I think the docs aren't very good rn, and the whole meta aspect as well. | 19:10:42 |
| just1602 | I'll see myself out ! 👋 | 19:10:43 |
| jade_ | have you seen how big buck2 is, lmfao | 19:10:48 |
| jade_ | it's that you can't afford to maintain a fork! | 19:10:54 |
| jade_ | the docs are pretty hilarious yes, we have to read the sources about as much if not more than nixpkgs | 19:11:27 |
| rosssmyth | Yeah all my C projects are embedded and so my first question is always "ok how do I use arm-none-eabi gcc" and spending a bit looking around in the docs my answer is "idk bro" | 19:12:36 |
| jade_ | the answer is it's in your toolchain definition, but yeah, uh, hahahahahahahaha lmao | 19:13:37 |
| jade_ | * the answer is it's in your toolchain definition, but yeah, uh, hahahahahahahaha lmao. and buck2 is way better at cross technically than meson | 19:13:55 |
| rosssmyth | Not surprised, meson's cross is barely adequate in most cases. | 19:14:44 |
| rosssmyth | It doesn't really know the difference between build and host no matter how hard it pretends to, resulting in very funny cases with Python and some other things it pretends to be an expert on | 19:15:22 |
| jade_ | more that meson completely does not have the conceptual design to be able to have cross-target-platform dependencies because of conceptual design faults | 19:15:24 |
| jade_ | yup! | 19:15:29 |
| jade_ | buck2 fixes this | 19:15:32 |
| rosssmyth | I would hope s | 19:15:56 |
| rosssmyth | * I would hope so | 19:15:58 |
| jade_ | i have some really sick proprietary buck2 nix integration stuff that i can't publish yet due to logistical reasons (it's not secret stuff). i also shudder to think how one would e.g. do toolchains for nixpkgs builds, etc. it seems like a massive headache best resolved with non-hermetic toolchains but then you lose remote builds, it's all kind of tangled together sadly. | 19:17:36 |
| rosssmyth | Yeah build systems work the best when they have complete control of all inputs, but only one can have complete control. | 19:18:50 |
| jade_ | i sometimes informally call my build system integration work "toxic yuri of two build systems with controlling personalities" | 19:19:17 |
| rosssmyth | Could maybe do something funny with a mitmcache like one of the java systems uses | 19:19:25 |
 Marie | i packaged some stuff today which was autotools calling cmake | 19:21:55 |
| rosssmyth | Sal Jiang's Black and White | 19:23:46 |
| Marie | (and upstreams build instructions were "take this docker container" blah blah) | 19:23:59 |
| Marie | and unconditionally calling git to get versions | 19:24:12 |
 John Ericson | tbh feels like a "jussi" thing | 19:28:26 |
