!lymvtcwDJ7ZA9Npq:lix.systems

Lix Development

297 Members
(Technical) development of Lix, the package manager, a Nix implementation. Please be mindful of ongoing technical conversations in this channel.104 Servers

Load older messages


SenderMessageTime
8 Dec 2024
@kfears:matrix.orgKFears (annoying)
In reply to @irenes:matrix.org
against my better judgement I reiterate that the overwork situation is the result of the communication debacle and that waiting for overwork to be resolved before thinking about communication is a death spiral
This is something that I wanted (but failed) to say. The mindset of "just one more refactor" is dangerous: people wanting to contribute are blocked, and people contributing are burning out because they are doing everything (and too much, probably) themselves
12:02:35
@kfears:matrix.orgKFears (annoying)I appreciate the very deep thought that goes into infra choices, tooling, integration work, releng, and more; but it feels like those things burn out people really hard and can be offloaded to other people more12:05:58
@piegames:flausch.socialpiegames Yeah but the flipside is: If you want to contribute now, you'll be doing refactoring as well. I think it is important to be upfront about that 12:09:16
@kfears:matrix.orgKFears (annoying)
In reply to @kfears:matrix.org
I appreciate the very deep thought that goes into infra choices, tooling, integration work, releng, and more; but it feels like those things burn out people really hard and can be offloaded to other people more
There's no harm in asking for help; sure, it might take some occasional investment to answer questions, but little things like that can compound into great results
12:18:48
@kfears:matrix.orgKFears (annoying)Asking for CL reviews for C++ code is already in a good state! Now we "just" need to start asking for help on infra, installer, releng and other stuff :)12:20:13
@toxicfrog:ancilla.caToxicFrogThis reminds me that I still need to clean up and land my RISC-V patch for the installer15:46:26
@shawn8901:matrix.orgshawn8901 set a profile picture.19:21:14
9 Dec 2024
@piegames:flausch.socialpiegames jade_: I've heard you want to cut a release Very Soon, what's your opinion on including vs not including https://gerrit.lix.systems/c/lix/+/2190 in the release? It's a mildly breaking change, do we want to get it out early to gather feedback or do we want to have it on main for a while in the hope that the beta testers will catch any issues until the next release? 10:32:27
@vigress9:matrix.orgV. 🏳️‍⚧️

What is the difference between realPath(path) and canonPath(path, true)?

/**
 * Canonicalise a path by removing all `.` or `..` components and
 * double or trailing slashes.  Optionally resolves all symlink
 * components such that each component of the resulting path is *not*
 * a symbolic link.
 */
Path canonPath(PathView path, bool resolveSymlinks = false);

/**
 * Resolves a file path to a fully absolute path with no symbolic links.
 *
 * @param path The path to resolve. If it is relative, it will be resolved relative
 * to the process's current directory.
 *
 * @note This is not a pure function; it performs this resolution by querying
 * the filesystem.
 *
 * @note @ref path sadly must be (a reference to) an owned string, as std::string_view
 * are not valid C strings...
 *
 * @return The fully resolved path.
 */
Path realPath(Path const & path);
12:04:14
@piegames:flausch.socialpiegames V. 🏳️‍⚧️: Unfortunately, probably only way to find out is to look at the implementations. Per convention as I know it, one is a pure operation on the path, and the other one queries the file system. But then why canonPath has a resolveSymlinks flag and what it does differently to realPath in that case is beyond me 13:35:09
@vigress9:matrix.orgV. 🏳️‍⚧️canonPath has a manual limit of 1024 followed symlinks13:58:41
@vigress9:matrix.orgV. 🏳️‍⚧️It's not needed though, ELOOP is already a thing13:59:27
@vigress9:matrix.orgV. 🏳️‍⚧️ * It's not needed though, realpath considers "too many symlinks" an error anyway14:00:59
@9999years:matrix.org9999years jade and i are about to be more active -- jade is starting a job at my employer and we're going to be spending some portion of our time on lix 17:58:34
@9999years:matrix.org9999yearsit's definitely at least partially a flywheel effect thing -- i would spend more time working on lix, but cl review bandwidth is quite limited, and i'm not sure where to start with some of the bigger projects (adding telemetry, optimizing the evaluator, lazy trees)17:59:36
@piegames:flausch.socialpiegamesHorrors and I are already working quite a bit on the evaluator, but rewriting the GC is still open :)18:39:31
@9999years:matrix.org9999years
In reply to @piegames:flausch.social
Horrors and I are already working quite a bit on the evaluator, but rewriting the GC is still open :)
i'll want to collaborate on that more soon, but if you have any writeups of what you're working on so far that would be awesome
18:45:48
@9999years:matrix.org9999yearsi remember horrors had a bytecode evaluator draft at one point, i'm very interested in seeing that and/or reviving it...?18:46:05
@piegames:flausch.socialpiegamesHorrors is currently splitting EvalState and working on asyncification18:46:32
@9999years:matrix.org9999years btw jade_ i finally uploaded the lix release process notes like you asked. i had to do battle with git hooks for this (git hooks do not play very nicely with worktrees apparently, but pre-commit fixes it automatically, at least sometimes...)
https://gerrit.lix.systems/c/lix/+/2294
18:46:46
@piegames:flausch.socialpiegamesI have a mini-bytecode thingie running locally which is vaguely based on Horrors' patch18:47:08
@jade_:matrix.orgjade_
In reply to @piegames:flausch.social
jade_: I've heard you want to cut a release Very Soon, what's your opinion on including vs not including https://gerrit.lix.systems/c/lix/+/2190 in the release? It's a mildly breaking change, do we want to get it out early to gather feedback or do we want to have it on main for a while in the hope that the beta testers will catch any issues until the next release?
i am unsure who uses that API if anyone. it might be better to try to cut a release first to give the explosions a little time to show up. i would like to do it in the next week if i can.
21:20:47
@jade_:matrix.orgjade_
In reply to @piegames:flausch.social
In terms of intro-level tasks, one other thing which can be done which is not cursed C++ for once is to look at the functional2 test runner. Probably the solution is to write our own test runner (Python or not) or to find another one which doesn't scare itself when run with more than 1 thread …
agreed. it could be async python for all it matters
21:29:01
@jade_:matrix.orgjade_i have a suspicion that a lot of parts of pytest could be reused21:29:54
@jade_:matrix.orgjade_for example, the nice assertions UX. we would just have to toss their main loop basically i think?21:30:10
@jade_:matrix.orgjade_
In reply to @raitobezarius:matrix.org
I agree and I do not see any good solutions until the overwork situation decreases and we can dilute enough responsibilities (release engineering, etc.) so that we stop putting prolific project members into risky situations for themselves

i happen to be in seattle at the moment and i might do some irl work with wiggles on trying to get releng into a better state.

my view of my role is to try to shepherd acceptable code in as much as possible and try to reduce dependencies on myself and core. one related thing is that we have, for basically accidental reasons, not simply given away commit access to more competent qualified people, which is 100% a governance problem of not being quorate enough due to inactivity but also that i think we just need to simply be giving it away harder with less specific requirements. there is still also the open question of what the difference should be between core and commit access (since core is already too many people to be easily quorate and obviously needs governance reform, but this takes such immense energy that i dont know if people have it)

21:36:00
@raitobezarius:matrix.orgraitobezarius i mean, i believe we have to do the governance reform at some point and power through it rather than powering through anything, but there needs to be a quorum among active core members to do it first 21:37:40
@jade_:matrix.orgjade_there is significant short-term chaos in the lives of several members of the core team for personal reasons that should become a bit less chaotic in a month or two, which should help with being able to do things. i do agree that our communication is very dysfunctional and our planning is anything but transparent and well written down. this is, sadly, a lot of work to fix, but it does need to get better21:44:30
@jade_:matrix.orgjade_(mostly the lack of transparency is actually it not being written down. we do not have secret plans, just poorly documented ones)21:44:52
@irenes:matrix.orgIrenesreviewnig CLs is one of the22:39:16

Show newer messages


Back to Room ListRoom Version: 10