| 6 Dec 2024 |
 raitobezarius (DECT: 3538 / EPVPN 2681) | As for the Nix custom subcommands experiment, I think it's mostly ready and requires only polish, but should be possible to use ; I wonder if we should include it in 2.92 under XP feature so that we can start having adoption | 22:20:28 |
| raitobezarius (DECT: 3538 / EPVPN 2681) | Another big priority for me is identity aware sandbox, but probably 2.93 | 22:21:09 |
|  caass joined the room. | 22:54:51 |
| 7 Dec 2024 |
 piegames ☎️ 9712 | I feel like Lix development is currently heavily bottlenecked on brains | 21:22:40 |
 KFears (annoying) | How so? Is this something that can be helped? | 21:53:11 |
 Irenes | yeah it looks that way from where I am, also | 22:05:35 |
| Irenes | frankly, I think this situation is an existential threat to the project and deserves to be taken seriously rather than shrugged off | 22:06:20 |
| Irenes | however, the outcome of the last time I attempted to help was uh | 22:06:37 |
| Irenes | I don't think it's my place to say more, basically | 22:06:48 |
| Irenes | good luck | 22:06:50 |
| KFears (annoying) | That doesn't sound overly optimistic :/
Just my 2 cents: if it's an existential threat like you say it is, it's worth discussing seriously and publicly | 22:16:44 |
| KFears (annoying) | I do want the project to thrive, but it's impossible for me to contribute anything useful if I don't even know what the attempt you're referring to was, what was the outcome, and why it failed | 22:21:35 |
| KFears (annoying) | And if you feel like there's something that keeps you from talking about that - might be about time to start the Lix governance discussion? | 22:25:03 |
| raitobezarius (DECT: 3538 / EPVPN 2681) | In reply to @piegames:flausch.social
I feel like Lix development is currently heavily bottlenecked on brains I am not so sure; there's obviously plenty to do and always not enough time but landing things takes time especially if we want them to be mature, etc. Given the current topics, I'd argue that the movement speed is satisfying (possibly maximum?).
Once we are out of the woods with respect to the immense technical debt that CppNix accrued, that's certainly another discussion
Of course, in the meantime, there's a bunch of org debt that we have (governance, infra, etc.) and it'd be great to have more hands on this | 23:13:09 |
| 8 Dec 2024 |
| KFears (annoying) | In reply to @raitobezarius:matrix.org
I am not so sure; there's obviously plenty to do and always not enough time but landing things takes time especially if we want them to be mature, etc. Given the current topics, I'd argue that the movement speed is satisfying (possibly maximum?).
Once we are out of the woods with respect to the immense technical debt that CppNix accrued, that's certainly another discussion
Of course, in the meantime, there's a bunch of org debt that we have (governance, infra, etc.) and it'd be great to have more hands on this I'd be down to help on org debt, but there are two issues here:
- The process needs to be kickstarted already, because otherwise there's just nothing to work on or help with
- I'm not sure how eligible am I to participate, anyway
Dropping the point number 2 because it's very me-specific, this is a problem not dissimilar to what Nix community has: few people have authority, and you gotta convince them to start the process and give you some authority on it to start working on it, and it's a lot of inertia to get things going. Alternatively, one can work out-of-tree, but then why have the community anyway.
And this problem is especially bad for governance/infra work: if I want to start a governance discussion, I can't do it without your input, because it is necessarily you who will be affected. I don't mean "you" as "you in particular" - I mean it more as a hand-wavy Lix Core team.
| 00:01:51 |
| KFears (annoying) | Those org debt issues are not very friendly to drive-by contributions. Part of it is fundamental, part of it is due to the community being quite young. Regardless, those things hard-depend on Lix Core team initiating the process | 00:06:05 |
| KFears (annoying) | The "existential threat" and "heavily bottlenecked" phrases seem to be symptomatic of existing frustrations. I don't know the context behind them, but I would make a guess that they are related to the issues I'm talking about. So maybe it's best to bump the priority on org debt? | 00:08:03 |
| KFears (annoying) | And well, I have some issues of my own to talk about. But they all seem to boil down to roughly "not technical enough to do C++, no discussions I can help with" - so I'm essentially useless while wanting to help, which is just a frustrating waste of resources | 00:14:54 |
| KFears (annoying) | And with the seeming recurring burnout happening in Lix Core team, I'd prefer if we have some kind of process going to not be stuck in a limbo where there are org issues but also no work ongoing - otherwise, burnouts can create a pretty nasty resonance if they happen to stack up all at once | 00:17:16 |
| KFears (annoying) | It's 100% fine if Lix the software is taking its time - I mean, the codebase has a lot of legacy stuff, and it's hard to work on and it takes time to work with and time to recover from it. But to me, it looks like Lix the community is 10x more eager to join the hibernation when Lix Core team isn't around, and this is not a great dynamic to have | 00:19:40 |
| KFears (annoying) | Thoughts? | 00:19:42 |
| Irenes | In reply to@kfears:matrix.org
That doesn't sound overly optimistic :/
Just my 2 cents: if it's an existential threat like you say it is, it's worth discussing seriously and publicly it's specifically not my business because I don't want to boss people around | 00:27:17 |
| Irenes | and I feel that me talking is kind of inherently bossy because I think things through deeply and talk about them in a level of detail that others aren't prepared to respond to | 00:27:41 |
| Irenes | no matter how welcoming I try to make it and solicit discussion and stuff, it doesn't work | 00:27:55 |
| Irenes | the only non-oppressive thing for me to do is not talk | 00:28:02 |
| Irenes | sorry | 00:28:06 |
| Irenes | it.... honestly I backed off from being involved here because I tried to, but people were apparently scared of me | 00:28:57 |
| Irenes | which like | 00:28:59 |
| Irenes | number one I don't want to scare people | 00:29:02 |
 ToxicFrog | :( | 00:29:07 |
