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30 Jun 2022
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howBasically they give you a bunch of "bitbake" code, like nix code, which you import. Then it gets rid of all the quirks, and patches software, etc. Much like an overlay in nix.08:54:27
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howAn example of what a bsp would do, is patch ffmpeg to have support for the Pi's OMX gpu. 08:54:58
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.how what we do with configureFlags = [ --enable-omx ] 08:55:09
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.how * what we do with configureFlags = [ "--enable-omx" ] 08:55:20
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforever
In reply to @dramforever:matrix.org
I guess I should clarify that the thing I worry about most is not just linux_visionfive but all the other things in the PR
IMHO We're not even sure how long the VisionFive will last, and what other things StarFive will do, and what the other Linux-capable RISC-V computers in the future will be like. We already know StarFive is working on a JH7110, an even better 8-core thing (I think these two are not the same?).
Will we be updating linux_visionfive or will we need linux_visionfive_v2? Are we prepared to deal with upstream issues in github:starfive-tech/*? Will StarFive keep upstreaming their drivers or not?
08:55:39
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howhttps://github.com/agherzan/meta-raspberrypi08:55:49
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howhere's what their "BSP" looks like 08:55:54
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.how So in order to patch mesa, they cannot just mesa.override since their language is simply terrifying and doesn't work like that, they do this https://github.com/agherzan/meta-raspberrypi/tree/master/recipes-graphics/mesa 08:56:45
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.how Line 6 of mesa-gl_%.bbappend is basically what we could do with foo.overrideAttrs (_: { postFixup = "rm -rf someFile"'; }) 08:57:58
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforever
In reply to @dramforever:matrix.org
IMHO We're not even sure how long the VisionFive will last, and what other things StarFive will do, and what the other Linux-capable RISC-V computers in the future will be like. We already know StarFive is working on a JH7110, an even better 8-core thing (I think these two are not the same?).
Will we be updating linux_visionfive or will we need linux_visionfive_v2? Are we prepared to deal with upstream issues in github:starfive-tech/*? Will StarFive keep upstreaming their drivers or not?
A question I've been thinking of throughout this discussion is... Why doesn't the Unmatched need all this, honestly, crap?
08:59:51
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howHas it not just been around for longer and therefore upstreamed more stuff?09:00:25
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howAnd perhaps SiFive are just faster, better, at upstreaming?09:00:35
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howIt's all down to upstreaming, etiquette, putting the work in, on behalf of the vendor isn't it?09:00:53
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforever Upstreaming in this case means putting things into linux not linux_unmatched, right? 09:01:21
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howIt takes work and time to do the extra step of upstreaming the code, and ultimately the vendor needs to do that work09:01:24
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.how
In reply to @dramforever:matrix.org
Upstreaming in this case means putting things into linux not linux_unmatched, right?
yes
09:01:29
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howtechnically anyone can do the work of upstreaming the code to Linux, but it's a lot easier for people working for the vendor to do it 09:01:49
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howAnd if it's simply not in the culture to do that, fast, and readily, then it just chugs along at a snails pace 09:02:12
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howAll of this will eventually settle, since all of the work is being done in the open 09:03:02
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howWith android phones there are genuine proprietary bits which make this a permanent problem though 09:03:30
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforeverSo the thing is about what we do in the meantime09:03:32
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howYeah, and nixos-hardware is a collection of nix code, equivalent to yocto BSPs which you import and it gets rid of all the quirks.09:03:52
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howso it's definitely a good thing to figure out how we best integrate with that 09:04:21
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howI wonder at which point we stop though. Where is the distinction? Yocto don't make one.09:05:26
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howIn their BSPs, they will provide overlays which patch all of the software possible, which seems clearly wrong to me :D 09:05:41
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howIf Yocto were doing nixos-hardware, they would add overlays for all of the software that came to their mind, and patch it to work better with the hardware.09:06:12
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howI seem to remember a version off ffmpeg in nixpkgs specifically for the raspberry pi 09:07:00
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforeverI feel like the situation with StarFive is slightly better than no upstreaming, because there's one person, Emil Renner Berthing, doing all the Linux upstreaming09:07:06
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.how * I seem to remember a version of ffmpeg in nixpkgs specifically for the raspberry pi 09:07:06
@matthewcroughan:defenestrate.itmatthewcroughan - nix.howIt looks like that too has been removed. But it's an interesting comparison.09:07:13

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