| 29 Jun 2025 |
 emily | this is exacerbated by having two DEs on the ISO: "you'd download that anyway" isn't necessarily true, because you'd only download half of it | 18:54:29 |
| emily | for the minimal ISO these tradeoffs aren't present | 18:54:46 |
 Alyssa Ross | So by default you get everything, but you can opt for an offline install that can easily be expanded into the default install later | 18:54:51 |
| emily | that feels like a moving target, because there's already sort of a luck element to your configuration happening to match stuff that is on the ISO store | 18:55:19 |
 hexa | The primary work would be to keep that logic in sync and I'm not sure that will work | 18:55:22 |
| emily | not actual luck, but you get what I mean | 18:55:26 |
| Alyssa Ross | In reply to @hexa:lossy.network
The primary work would be to keep that logic in sync and I'm not sure that will work Can't we have a test? | 18:55:34 |
| emily | you could configure something slightly differently and it pulls in a random package to verify a config at build time and then it breaks | 18:55:39 |
| hexa | We can, but what are we going to do? Block channel bumps on it? | 18:55:54 |
| emily | not if users changing anything about the config at all is part of the use case | 18:55:57 |
| hexa | That sounds excessive | 18:56:00 |
| emily | like | 18:56:00 |
| emily | you could specify a different filesystem | 18:56:03 |
 ElvishJerricco | it isn't | 18:56:05 |
| emily | and it would break | 18:56:07 |
| emily | well ok bad example | 18:56:24 |
| emily | since the FS has to be on the ISO anyway | 18:56:28 |
| emily | (though, kernel vs. tools) | 18:56:32 |
| emily | at a certain point, you are delivering no extra value other than just booting the ISO to begin with… | 18:56:51 |
| Alyssa Ross | In reply to @hexa:lossy.network
We can, but what are we going to do? Block channel bumps on it? Why not? It would be another feature of the installer that we'd keep working, and the quick fix if it breaks is just to add the missing path. | 18:56:55 |
| hexa | Because it blocks an entire trunk-combined eval 😕 | 18:57:18 |
| emily | I'm not sure the use case is defined enough to have a good justification for providing value | 18:57:24 |
| emily | for minimal it makes sense to support because the only reason it doesn't work is essentially matters of "hygiene" | 18:57:35 |
| emily | so it raises the quality of the ISO in general to support it | 18:57:52 |
| emily | for graphical it is its own set of trade-offs and I haven't seen an actual argument for why you would want this specific property | 18:58:12 |
| ElvishJerricco | let's just shelve the idea of offline graphical installs for now | 18:58:13 |
| hexa | * Because it blocks an entire trunk-combined eval 😕 Blocks security updates, requires another costly eval, and another half a day to advance or so | 18:58:16 |
| ElvishJerricco | we've got enough going on at the moment with the new networkmanager goal, and making systemd networking and initrd the default in the near future | 18:58:34 |
| emily | (given that ~every installation needs some kind of customization to have any reason to not just be dding the ISO, we don't support a system that can't receive updates, etc.) | 18:58:43 |
| hexa | I think if we remove enableDefaultPlugins and go with a release note then we're already closer to where you want to be. | 18:58:44 |
