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NixOS Networking

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29 Jun 2025
@hexa:lossy.networkhexa🐌06:03:07
@hexa:lossy.networkhexa"quickly" testing the minimal installer06:03:47
@hexa:lossy.networkhexaimage.png
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06:20:00
@hexa:lossy.networkhexathat implies that gpg-agent requires a suid wrapper, no? 😄 06:20:17
@emma:rory.gay@emma:rory.gaymtr is above that, no?06:22:31
@hexa:lossy.networkhexayes, but it is grouped with mtr06:22:41
@emma:rory.gay@emma:rory.gayin this case it feels like the suid wrapper thing applies to the former while the other 2 things are where gnupg comes in to demo06:23:29
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily💯12:02:58
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilywould :1000: if I could12:03:00
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilymost projects that don't languish grow more than fast enough to be challenging without any explicit effort12:03:38
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyand NixOS in particular is basically incapable of being everything to everyone, there's very little reason for anyone who doesn't want to program their distro to use it (directly; it could of course be a good backend to an end-user-focused distribution)12:07:35
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily for something like 15 years now my standard response to people who come in to a space like "convince me why I should use your language/distro/…" has been "shrug probably you shouldn't if you don't want to?" 12:08:33
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily

anyway after sleeping (badly) on it the NM by default plan makes sense. my remaining concerns are twofold

  • "NixOS is declarative, right? I want to make my IP static (or whatever). let's search how to do that. hm, apparently it's networking.*" – now you're mixing NM and scripted networking
  • when we switch to networkd by default, risks of potential conflicts between NM and networkd when people do want to declare parts of their networking config

for the former, we can probably solve that by useNetworkd by default + deprecation notices in the networking.* docs + gradually getting rid of stuff. I assume that if we're not relying on useDHCP any more then ElvishJerricco's qualms with the interface simplicity don't apply and we're okay with making people learn systemd.network.networks."40-foo" = { name = "enp1s0"; networkConfig.Address = "1.2.3.4/24"; ); rather than networking.interfaces.enp1s0.ipv4.addresses = [ { address = "1.2.3.4"; prefixLength = 24; } ];, which is both shorter and also will make it explicitly clear to people when they are mixing networkd and NM.

I haven't tried doing the latter myself but I guess it's probably a well-trodden enough path that it works fine as long as you're not explicitly configuring conflicting things?

12:15:39
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily NM in initrd when? 12:16:31
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyoh I missed this part, it was precisely Haskell that taught me this lesson :)12:55:39
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyFWIW, the intended parse is "avoid (success at all costs)", not "(avoid success) at all costs", though the ambiguity may be a deliberate joke12:56:00
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilythe former is timeless advice for any innovative project but I'm sympathetic to the latter too :p12:56:54
@hexa:lossy.networkhexa

works fine as long as you're not explicitly configuring conflicting things?

Exactly that.

12:58:19
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyseems fine then12:59:46
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily I agree we should definitely gradually deprecate all the scripted networking.* stuff if we're not relying on it as a new user on-ramp then 13:00:24
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilymaybe keeping a small subset of the most basic parts of the networkd shim around as deprecated-but-works indefinitely13:01:00
@antifuchs:asf.computerantifuchshey folks, sorry for kicking off such a wild discussion with (what I thought was) an innocent question... I don't want to pile more work on top of y14:35:09
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyit's an important discussion to have14:35:23
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyand stuff that has become years overdue14:35:35
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyscripted initrd and networking are definitely going away though, sorry :P14:35:44
@antifuchs:asf.computerantifuchs* hey folks, sorry for kicking off such a wild discussion with (what I thought was) an innocent question... I don't want to pile more work on top of y'all's plates, and just want to say that the way forward you all are on is great (:14:35:46
@antifuchs:asf.computerantifuchs(hit enter too soon, lol)14:35:53
@hexa:lossy.networkhexanot sorry 😄 14:36:05
@antifuchs:asf.computerantifuchsdon't be sorry, I am looking forward to this world14:36:17
@antifuchs:asf.computerantifuchshowever, I don't think I will be able to get this one system on it because it's gonna be a bunch of work that I can't invest right now and the cost of failure punishing (and failure will only be apparent at runtime when it's too late)14:37:19

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