| 21 Aug 2021 |
 matthewcroughan - nix.zone | And consumes 10,0000 watts. | 03:27:18 |
 dash | haha. | 03:27:22 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | It's a nightmare, because you have no control over your route, so it goes to China. | 03:27:27 |
| dash | and? | 03:27:34 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | You can prove this by running a traceroute and observing the changes over time. | 03:27:40 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | In reply to @washort:greyface.org
and? Well, that's inefficient, and also shady when it happens. | 03:27:50 |
| dash | matthewcroughan - nix.zone: inefficient compared to what | 03:27:57 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | IP addresses sometimes get remapped due to BGP router misconfiguration. | 03:28:05 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | In reply to @washort:greyface.org
matthewcroughan - nix.zone: inefficient compared to what SCION, or any alternative layer2 proposal that solves these issues. | 03:28:13 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | Quite seriously any layer2 replacement. | 03:28:19 |
 6aa4fd | In reply to @matthewcroughan:defenestrate.it
The current network topology is an example of a nightmare, where administrators have absolute control. every bit of control you "give" to users, comes from administrators, who are the possessors and at least agents of the owners of the equipment | 03:28:25 |
| 6aa4fd | i don't see anything else as palatable from a personal property perspective | 03:28:38 |
| dash | matthewcroughan - nix.zone: maybe it's just me but "things could be better" and "this is a nightmare" seem rather distinct | 03:28:43 |
| 6aa4fd | probably from a public utility or legal perspective, but that is kind of out of the domain of this discussion | 03:28:50 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | In reply to @washort:greyface.org
matthewcroughan - nix.zone: maybe it's just me but "things could be better" and "this is a nightmare" seem rather distinct It is a nightmare. I mean it. | 03:28:53 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | BGP is a nightmare. | 03:28:56 |
| dash | I have no context for what that means | 03:29:06 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | Nobody understands how it works, it's like Fortran. | 03:29:09 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | The people who understand how it truly works, are dying. | 03:29:15 |
| dash | all I'm hearing is "sometimes things are misconfigured" | 03:29:21 |
| dash | there are definitely people who understand fortran | 03:29:44 |
| 6aa4fd | In reply to @matthewcroughan:defenestrate.it
The people who understand how it truly works, are dying. well then its not really about the power balance between users and administrators, its about the lack of understanding, by any of the stakeholders | 03:29:47 |
| dash | not sure what you're trying to say | 03:29:52 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | In reply to @washort:greyface.org
all I'm hearing is "sometimes things are misconfigured"
- The people who understand it are dying
- Misconfigurations are common
- It requires energy inefficient equipment
- You are not politically permitted to run your own BGP router
- Paperwork and humans are required
| 03:30:19 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | Is that enough for you? | 03:30:24 |
| 6aa4fd | you are not politically permitted to run your own bgp router?? in what jurisdiction | 03:30:50 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | Well, try and run one, see what happens, it won't work. | 03:31:06 |
| dash | matthewcroughan - nix.zone: this all sounds normal to me | 03:31:12 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | You need to peer with other routers, which requires manual input into systems, it's not automated. Who's going to peer with you? | 03:31:35 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | You won't be accepted. | 03:31:41 |
