| 3 May 2024 |
 hexa | In reply to @emma:rory.gay
i wasnt aware that a choice was even being made, also are you saying matrix has terrible moderation tooling? yes, compared to discourse every moderation toolbox has been terrible so far | 22:34:35 |
| hexa | In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org
Is it self-hosted now? no, sponsored cloud for open source organisations | 22:34:47 |
 @emma:rory.gay | In reply to @hexa:lossy.network
yes, compared to discourse every moderation toolbox has been terrible so far ive never used discourse before but i dont see what matrix is lacking | 22:37:42 |
 Dandellion | I believe the decision was the correct one, so I'm not going to play devil's advocate or concern-troll or anything. But us being on a strict schedule is not a reason I want to see being used throughout the project while a small group with the resources to take time off/live in the correct timezone do all the decisionmaking. I don't really think this will be an issue, but I find it important to highlight either way based on the deflecting tone in your reply to this concern being raised | 22:39:36 |
 @paperdigits:matrix.org | For one matrix requires a completely separate app for moderation | 22:39:38 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town | Dandellion: while I understand the concern (and it is a genuine concern in and of itself), many of us have been working on this in some form for somewhere between months and years already, so there is very little energy left to get any kind of governance solution in place - and a significant effort was made to make this as broadly accessible as possible within the constraints | 22:41:11 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | this is likely the same reason for the deflecting tone; people are simply exhausted | 22:41:34 |
| @emma:rory.gay | In reply to @paperdigits:matrix.org
For one matrix requires a completely separate app for moderation i dont think it does, but would love to hear more | 22:42:03 |
| @paperdigits:matrix.org | In reply to @emma:rory.gay
i dont think it does, but would love to hear more Sorry. Not app, its a bot: https://matrix.org/docs/communities/moderation/ | 22:43:32 |
| @emma:rory.gay | im surprised they link to mjolnir lol | 22:43:58 |
| @paperdigits:matrix.org | The discourse moderation tools are quite good, I've moderated a discourse instance for almost a decade now. They've put a lot of thought into the platform and the way it functions. | 22:44:27 |
| @emma:rory.gay | but yeah, thats something that simply isnt possible on something like matrix, versus discourse where yeah, you can easily just say "ban person from all topics" | 22:44:59 |
| @emma:rory.gay | and tbh i dont see it requiring a bot as a flaw, as it means you arent locked into one way of doing things | 22:47:15 |
| @paperdigits:matrix.org | I didn't say it was a flaw. It is different. I was also mod of a matrix room that was just a stock install, no bot, no anything except manually reading message. Terrible. | 22:48:38 |
| @paperdigits:matrix.org | This is probably off topic for this room, so I'll bow out. | 22:49:21 |
| @emma:rory.gay | #mod-ideas:matrix.org ? | 22:49:33 |
 Janik (they/them) | In reply to @emma:rory.gay
ive never used discourse before but i dont see what matrix is lacking This is getting a bit off topic, but one of the best features of discourse moderation is trust-levels other things are being able to move messages to other threads (which zulip also supports), having slow mode, lot's of auto-moderation based on user flags (e.g. hiding posts when enough people flagged them, automatically put slow mode on topics/lock them if many posts in a thread got flagged), being able to hide threads so only participants can see them, reporting users (currently if you report a user the home-server admins get the report and there is no way to say pls. report this to space admins/mods), and lot's more. Matrix is simply lacking lot's of features you would want for large communities. Don't get me wrong, I want matrix to be a thing and I think it's awesome that matrix gets used by public institutes and governments but it still has lots of issues. | 22:50:50 |
| @emma:rory.gay | yeah fwiw most of those things i think are unsolvable in a federated context, anyways would recommend moving to that room or something more general like #general:conduit.rory.gay | 22:52:07 |
| Janik (they/them) | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
this is likely the same reason for the deflecting tone; people are simply exhausted yeah, sorry for my harsh tone. I just don't have much energy left, nix/nixos/nixpkgs basically became 90% of my spare time and the other 10% are mostly doing things to stay a functional human being. | 22:52:32 |
| Janik (they/them) | In reply to @dandellion:dodsorf.as
I believe the decision was the correct one, so I'm not going to play devil's advocate or concern-troll or anything. But us being on a strict schedule is not a reason I want to see being used throughout the project while a small group with the resources to take time off/live in the correct timezone do all the decisionmaking. I don't really think this will be an issue, but I find it important to highlight either way based on the deflecting tone in your reply to this concern being raised That's very fair, and I also wish some decisions had been better communicated and had more time for discussions but the chat platform really isn't a important decision here, we just have to get something working that makes sense for the usecase and is as accessible as possible. Like I'd also have wanted to give some input to the CoC document for governance discussions, but basically didn't have time to do so between work, my finals, (some) sleep, etc... | 23:00:50 |
| Janik (they/them) | In reply to @dandellion:dodsorf.as
I believe the decision was the correct one, so I'm not going to play devil's advocate or concern-troll or anything. But us being on a strict schedule is not a reason I want to see being used throughout the project while a small group with the resources to take time off/live in the correct timezone do all the decisionmaking. I don't really think this will be an issue, but I find it important to highlight either way based on the deflecting tone in your reply to this concern being raised * That's very fair, and I also wish some decisions had been better communicated and had more time for discussions but the chat platform really isn't a important decision here, we just have to get something working that makes sense for the usecase and is as accessible as possible. Like I'd also would have wanted to give some input to the CoC document for governance discussions, but basically didn't have time to do so between work, my finals, (some) sleep, etc... | 23:01:18 |
| hexa | In reply to @emma:rory.gay
ive never used discourse before but i dont see what matrix is lacking Lots. https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-moderation-guide/63116 | 23:06:56 |
| hexa | I'm fully aware, that federated systems make these things so much harder, especially if you're not considering during the initial design phase. | 23:10:44 |
| 4 May 2024 |
|  @fundar:matrix.org left the room. | 11:21:00 |
|  felschr joined the room. | 13:35:10 |
| felschr | infinisil Not exactly sure why, but I didn't get an email about this, even though I am in the @NixOS/nixpkgs-maintainers team.
https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/issues/143#issuecomment-2094152537
Maybe because I was never active in NixOS/foundation before?
| 13:42:26 |
 infinisil | Well, damn! felschr (we're kind of discussing this already in #platform-governance:nixos.org, maybe join there?) | 13:43:07 |
|  Benedikt joined the room. | 17:31:50 |
|  Narcotix joined the room. | 21:19:09 |
|  Mathias Leichtenstern joined the room. | 21:42:58 |
