| 6 Mar 2024 |
 @domenkozar:matrix.org | * and that's the beauty of how the world works :) | 13:18:57 |
 patka | Huh, what is this reasoning? delroth is saying that he doesn't like cloudflare and that they would then leave? You are the one forcing cloudflare on others by making sure we move there Domen Kožar. I hope you can be a bit more considerate than this.
First barge in here and destroys people plans with some "wait, I'll get funding" and then this... | 13:19:31 |
| @domenkozar:matrix.org | patka: I respect his opinion, but threatening like this is not a way to have any decent discussions | 13:20:35 |
| @domenkozar:matrix.org | * patka: I respect his opinion, but threatening like this is not a way to have any decent discussion | 13:20:36 |
| @domenkozar:matrix.org | * patka: I respect their opinion, but threatening like this is not a way to have any decent discussion | 13:20:43 |
| patka | What is threathening about it? they are just sharing what they'd do themselves. The only "forcing" thing is not having a conversation and honestly interacting, while forcing cloudflare on others | 13:21:28 |
| @domenkozar:matrix.org | In reply to @delroth:delroth.net
if that's going to be the foundation's stance on things, I hope you're ready to accept the consequences that come with it have you read this ? | 13:22:21 |
| patka | This is how burnout happens. People not being listened to and when they do make a plan that someone comes in with "promises to fix things (funding in this case)" and negates the plans. While also probably (I don't know) having enough weight behind them to just force things through.
I have read that indeed. But saying that they would leave is indeed a threat, and also something that should be taking into account, right? Especially because then we'd largely have a dead infra. | 13:24:57 |
| @domenkozar:matrix.org | patka: that's my point about burnout I was having earlier, I've seen this play out many times in the past and it always ends the same | 13:26:15 |
|  @sinavir:matrix.org joined the room. | 13:26:44 |
| patka | Anyway, I have said what I wanted and am going to pull out of this again. Sorry if I stepped on anyones toes. I was just reading this and hoping this wouldn't be how things were normally dealt with. I don't think it's a smart and sustainable way to do conduct business | 13:26:58 |
 raitobezarius | Just to be clear, I stand with @delroth on the CloudFlare choice. | 13:56:15 |
| raitobezarius | We have a clear community with clear opinions and stances w.r.t to CloudFlare history, we don't need to throw them money and be hypocritical about our values | 13:57:18 |
| raitobezarius | This is not the same situation as before where we had zero infra people and had no idea where we will be going, there's plenty of choices and CloudFlare can be heavily penalized in that list so that we won't even need to consider it IMHO | 13:58:12 |
 adamcstephens 🐝 | Do we have a clear community opinion on this? That feels presumptive to me given this discussion and my own personaly opinions. | 13:58:14 |
| adamcstephens 🐝 | * Do we have a clear community opinion on this? That feels presumptive to me given this discussion and my own personal opinions. | 13:58:23 |
 Wanja Hentze | is it specifically an issue with Cloudflare or cloud providers more generally? | 13:58:27 |
| raitobezarius | In reply to @adam:robins.wtf
Do we have a clear community opinion on this? That feels presumptive to me given this discussion and my own personaly opinions. The amount of minorities contributing to our project is a bit visible | 13:58:38 |
| raitobezarius | I took an expansive interpretation of clear stance on this because I assumed that people are aware of what happened with Kiwi Farms :) | 13:59:21 |
| adamcstephens 🐝 | To be clear I have no love for Cloudflare, but I also consider Amazon to be problematic. But they get to fly under the radar I guess. | 13:59:57 |
| raitobezarius | In reply to @whentze:matrix.org
is it specifically an issue with Cloudflare or cloud providers more generally? This is specific to CF regarding their role on enabling certain sorts of consequences in real world from what I see, but maybe delroth had something else in mind | 13:59:57 |
| raitobezarius | Yes | 14:00:06 |
| raitobezarius | I support complete self hosting and minimal cloud computing | 14:00:41 |
| raitobezarius | The NixOS project is not a startup | 14:00:47 |
| raitobezarius | It will exist in a large amount of years | 14:00:56 |
| raitobezarius | Problems like volunteers, inventives structures to maintain infrastructure are solvable | 14:01:13 |
| raitobezarius | I don't think we need to give the money to pay engineers to other companies if we have the pool of talents in our community to do it at cheaper rates | 14:01:36 |
| @domenkozar:matrix.org | raitobezarius: we have so much stuff to build, I don't understand why pick this fight | 14:02:11 |
| adamcstephens 🐝 | self hosting as much as possible would be my preference as well, but unfortunately it does seem more expensive due to needing to pay people | 14:02:47 |
| raitobezarius | In reply to @domenkozar:matrix.org
raitobezarius: we have so much stuff to build, I don't understand why pick this fight Because things can be parallel, it's not because there's another thing to build that the folks working on that would build it no? | 14:03:00 |
