| 4 Nov 2021 |
 tomberek | Policy, banning, moderation, community discussions, etc all move that line back and forth. | 01:50:50 |
| tomberek | It establishes over time a standard of what is considered reasonable to ignore, and what rises above that and needs to be dealt with in some other way. | 01:52:22 |
 moritz.hedtke | So no RFC? :-) | 01:54:20 |
| tomberek | The underlying disagreement seems to be that people vehemently don't see that line drawn close to each other, or in what direction it should move, or even how that moving should take place. | 01:54:21 |
| tomberek | In such a situation, the best thing is often to trust in people to make decisions, and try to set things up such that that trust is not abused. | 01:57:02 |
 jonringer | In reply to @moritz.hedtke:matrix.org
So no RFC? :-) I'm going to get the ball rolling on them, then step back from all platforms but github | 01:57:46 |
| jonringer | I'm just, tired of all the drama around people wanting a safe place. But only seeing the same people be responsible for the most inflammatory comments and dialouge. | 01:59:05 |
| moritz.hedtke | I hope we manage to at least codify the common denominator of guidelines / rules | 01:59:14 |
| jonringer | In reply to @moritz.hedtke:matrix.org
I hope we manage to at least codify the common denominator of guidelines / rules That's RFC #1 | 01:59:25 |
| jonringer | Well, the guidelines/values. Rules and enforcement will be a different RFC | 02:00:29 |
| tomberek | moritz.hedtke: with that goal in mind, and with the goal to find a consensus, would you write RFC98 as is? | 02:03:59 |
| jonringer | And "rules" are more like, not abiding by the values. and magnitude of punishment will be delegated by to a moderation team | 02:04:04 |
| moritz.hedtke | In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org
moritz.hedtke: with that goal in mind, and with the goal to find a consensus, would you write RFC98 as is? You mean jonringers plan? | 02:11:16 |
| tomberek | No, 98. | 02:11:33 |
| moritz.hedtke | In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org
No, 98. I think 98 is too ambiguous in it's values (didn't read it super throughouly yet). I like the idea of a larger team that takes care of the community though. I could imagine that first codyfing only the values/guidelines and then creating some kind of team that should enforce them like I understand jonringers current proposal could work better | 02:15:15 |
| tomberek | Would you like to look at 102? It is far more minimal. Perhaps too much so, but it's an attempt to establish a common ground. | 02:16:26 |
| jonringer | In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org
Would you like to look at 102? It is far more minimal. Perhaps too much so, but it's an attempt to establish a common ground. I don't think 102 really has enough "teeth" to exercise it's moderation power. If anything I think i just codifies the existing system | 02:17:30 |
| jonringer | Then again, I read it after 7 hours of arguing on the internet | 02:18:08 |
| tomberek | Agreed, perhaps it's the (step 1). But I think if we keep arguing over 98, we'll never get anywhere. | 02:18:35 |
| jonringer | In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org
Agreed, perhaps it's the (step 1). But I think if we keep arguing over 98, we'll never get anywhere. give me like 3 hours | 02:18:45 |
| moritz.hedtke | Honestly I really like Rusts CoC combined with their Moderation rules. But as discussed above it seems like it's not super easy to convince the community of adopting them more is less equal. Also there are many differences in how people interpret words in there that seem to have really overloaded meanings | 02:23:59 |
| tomberek | I think if the original proposal was Rust CoC this would all have gone a lot smoother. | 02:24:38 |
| moritz.hedtke | In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org
Agreed, perhaps it's the (step 1). But I think if we keep arguing over 98, we'll never get anywhere. I personally like the foundations statement but others may find it too unclear | 02:24:39 |
| moritz.hedtke | Definitely missing is what actions the team can take like warnings/temporary bans/permanent bans and really roughly when | 02:25:37 |
| tomberek | It would have been easier to come to an agreement. Fewer rants and heated emotions, easier to find common ground. | 02:25:58 |
|  problems joined the room. | 02:43:16 |
| jonringer | https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/114 | 03:04:47 |
|  Irenes joined the room. | 04:05:03 |
| Irenes | ah | 04:06:29 |
| Irenes | there is a lot of scrollback | 04:06:32 |
