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NixOS JVM

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17 Jul 2025
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyno idea how long AQAvit(™) takes, but I'm guessing it's not exactly fast either. it may be the kind of thing that would have to be done out-of-band periodically15:42:00
@msgilligan:matrix.orgmsgilligan

I expect it's the kind of thing that might be suitable for passthru.tests, to be manually run on an update, rather than blocking the build on Hydra

Yeah. And I also have the impression getting AQAVit running under Nix would be non-trivial. I don't think it is something the Nix Java team should prioritize in the short-run and it's not something I see myself having the time or inclination to tackle. But it might be nice to have eventually.

16:16:06
@msgilligan:matrix.orgmsgilligan

either the Temurin build scripts are a good fit for us and we can use them in our OpenJDK source builds, or they would make the derivation less maintainable or less flexible and so we should keep driving the OpenJDK build on our own

The individual working on it seems committed to doing it, so maybe we find out.

16:17:36
@msgilligan:matrix.orgmsgilligan

It seems like the core Nix Java team (however that is defined) should focus an a few JDKs as "first-tier" and a few more as "second-tier" and declare the rest as community supported. And this should be documented somewhere. Something like:

First-tier:

  • OpenJDK
  • GraalVM Community Edition

Second-tier:

  • Temurin (because it's used for bootstrap)
  • Zulu (because it's used on Darwin)

Community-supported:
Everything else (and if something isn't maintained it can be dropped)

16:23:49
@msgilligan:matrix.orgmsgilliganIt would be nice to see an OpenJDK build that works on Darwin and I believe there is an active PR to do this. If it can be done correctly, then Zulu could be "demoted" to community-supported.16:31:46
@msgilligan:matrix.orgmsgilliganI'm also wondering why Nix doesn't do what GUIX does and build OpenJDK n with OpenJDK n-1. I'm guessing this is because we don't have the bootstrap chain going back far enough to make this work?16:33:32
@msgilligan:matrix.orgmsgilligan *

It seems like the core Nix Java team (however that is defined) should focus an a few JDKs as "first-tier" and a few more as "second-tier" and declare the rest as community supported. And this should be documented somewhere. Something like:

First-tier:

  • OpenJDK
  • GraalVM Community Edition

Second-tier:

  • Temurin (because it's used for bootstrap)
  • Zulu (because it's used on Darwin)

Community-supported:

  • Everything else (and if something isn't maintained it can be dropped)
16:34:13
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossHistorically people have been resistant to long bootstraps in Nixpkgs because of the build times. (IMO we should do it anyway)16:34:20
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossGuix has bootstrappability as an explicit principle and we sadly dont16:34:40
@infinidoge:inx.moeInfinidoge 🏳️‍⚧️Having been the one to remove most of the JDKs, the problem with bootstrapping is maintaining all of the components16:35:11
@infinidoge:inx.moeInfinidoge 🏳️‍⚧️Most of the JDK steps were very unable to build I tried fixing them and at a certain point I just gave up16:35:46
@msgilligan:matrix.orgmsgilliganYeah, not only does the whole chain need to be there, but it needs to be maintained.16:35:58
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossThe flipside is it would be a lot easier to notice things that would break the old versions if they were in the critical path of the current version16:36:32
@msgilligan:matrix.orgmsgilliganI would really like to see full bootstrappability, but I guess that's not feasible in the short-run.16:36:59

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