| 24 Aug 2024 |
 Jake Thompson | In reply to @flare:matrix.darkc0de.one
I might actually be dumb. Turns out I was mixing up memory cards and PKI cards as they both use the same interface.
So now I have the backwards issues. Lots of potential writers. But very few cards. And albiet quite expensive if you don't mind me asking , whats the general case that , people in general use these for , is it like for hardware storage or an encrypted key?
| 13:30:51 |
| 25 Aug 2024 |
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 flare | its similar to the Yubikey in that it is a hardware cryptographic token.
They are most commonly used in Government where its is an ID card with a certificate loaded. Some european countries also use it for national IDs. for the US however its limited to government contractors and military personel | 16:51:29 |
| flare | In reply to @vampyr3:matrix.org
wow , seeing as those have the same interface , that's definitely a manufacturer concern. I will look more into the ISO's around it , as you would think there would be some standardization around it you know. The thing is that ISO 7816 is essentially a full contact smart card specification stack.
For example what I have gathered is that ISO 7816-4 describes the pin interface and a lot of cards are compliant with this standard | 16:52:56 |
| flare | however 7816-15 describes how the internal data structure of the smartcard is to be laid out and access.
I havent read into this specific part too much as to whether specifically defines crypto tokens but either way it describes a file like data structure on smart cards
However no smart card has to follow BOTH. Memory cards are Just EEPROMs that connect to the contact interface specified in 7816-4. But dont provide any crypto circuity. So, not useful as a token.
| 16:56:22 |
| flare | so to have a smart card for crypto purposes you need to have a 7816-4 smart card with 7816-15 OR* pkcs#15 (crypto specific file system spec for smart card tokens).
All fine and dandy. apparently its impossible to find those cards that provide full pkcs#15 compliance so that they can be programmed by opensc. You usually find cards that only impliment partially pkcs#15 and the rest of how data is stored is left up to the manufacturer.
This is because FIPS 201 and SP 800-73 (US Government standards for ID smart card crypto tokens) Leave the internal data structure of the smart cards up to the manufacturuers
| 17:01:35 |
| flare | so in conclusion | 17:01:43 |
| flare | its one hell of a muddled mess. and If you want the exact same solution that is easy and nice to use. Get a yubikey | 17:02:16 |
| flare | Fun fact: You debit or credit card is also a smart card that follows these standards as a crypto token. Just its own decades long mess there | 17:03:21 |
| flare | * Fun fact: Your debit or credit card is also a smart card that follows these standards as a crypto token. Just its own decades long mess there | 17:03:29 |
| flare | * Fun fact: Your debit or credit card is also a smart card if it has a chip and that follows these standards as a crypto token. Just its own decades long mess there | 17:03:59 |
| flare | * its one hell of a muddled mess. and If you want the exact same solution that is easy and nice to use. *Get a yubikey instead* | 17:04:32 |
| flare | * its one hell of a muddled mess. and If you want the exact same solution that is easy and nice to use. **Get a yubikey instead** | 17:04:44 |
| flare | For me in the US I had a hell of a time finding a card that is fully compliant with these open standards and avoids vendor lock in. However for those in Europe there is hope
https://webservices.aventra.fi/webshop/index.php?route=product/category&path=60
Here you can get iso 7816 form factor smart cards that are fully compliant with open standard pkcs#15. Which means there is no need for proprietary software managed on windows.
a beautiful thing. Just for each card for me postage would make one card cost me $70. So not so great for me. Possible good for yall in europe | 17:09:06 |
| flare | * For me in the US I had a hell of a time finding a card that is fully compliant with these open standards and avoids vendor lock in. However for those in Europe there is hope
https://webservices.aventra.fi/webshop/index.php?route=product/category&path=60
Here you can get iso 7816 form factor smart cards that are fully compliant with open standard pkcs#15. Which means there is no need for proprietary software managed on windows.
a beautiful thing. Just for me postage would make one card cost me $70. So not so great for me. Possibly good for y'all in europe | 17:09:49 |
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