| 5 Dec 2025 |
 Randy Eckenrode | For 26.05, I want to try making darwin.binutils only have LLVM tools. I also want to try using LLD by default on Darwin. | 14:07:14 |
| Randy Eckenrode | I’m trying to build Swift using HOSTTOOLS. It gets up to the end, then ld gets stuck linking lib/swift/macosx/arm64/libswiftRegexBuilder.dylib. | 14:30:03 |
| Randy Eckenrode | * I’m trying to build Swift using HOSTTOOLS. It gets up to the end, then ld gets stuck linking lib/swift/macosx/arm64/libswiftRegexBuilder.dylib. That’s not good. | 14:30:22 |
 niklaskorz | In reply to @reckenrode:matrix.org
For 26.05, I want to try making darwin.binutils only have LLVM tools. I also want to try using LLD by default on Darwin. That'd pretty neat, but I recall you saying both lld and llvm install name tool had some compatibility issues? | 15:00:01 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Yes. I can add extra outputs to cctools that people can add when they really need those versions. The install_name_tool issue is probably not common. I don’t think many libraries use reexports. libiconv does due to historical accident. | 15:06:56 |
| niklaskorz | Cool! | 15:09:28 |
| Randy Eckenrode | I think the Swift issue is LTO. My hope is LLD is better. | 15:10:05 |
 emily | disclaimer for Gruber, but I have been happy to learn that the person who took responsibility for Liquid Glass and has otherwise overseen the decline in Apple UI design over the past decade has been replaced by an actual interface designer https://daringfireball.net/2025/12/bad_dye_job | 18:01:31 |
| emily | fingers crossed that macOS 27 will be the least worse macOS release compared to the previous version in years | 18:02:08 |
| Randy Eckenrode | I’m way behind on ATP, but Marco Arment has been ranting about Alan Dye for years. I look forward to (eventually) listening to the next episode. | 18:03:17 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Didn’t they say they were going to make it a Snow Leopard release? | 18:03:37 |
| emily | it sounds like we lucked into getting an expert who has been around for the entire century and everyone respects as the replacement rather than someone good at corporate politics | 18:04:33 |
| emily | hope it works out | 18:04:43 |
| emily | we could use a few Snow Leopards in a row at this point… | 18:04:56 |
 samasaur | yea rumor has it that it will be snow leopard–like. don't think we have heard anything official about it | 18:11:30 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Being back the cat names, and I might use them again instead of numbers. | 18:12:32 |
| samasaur | my favorite reaction to the dye news is that tweet at the end of the gruber article but my second favorite is this image: | 18:12:40 |
| samasaur | 
Download image.png | 18:12:48 |
 Katalin 🔪 | hahahah | 18:13:04 |
| emily | I thought https://x.com/sdw/status/1996431428561822093 was funny | 18:14:12 |
| Randy Eckenrode | Got Swift building by turning off LTO. Now I need to fix the SwiftPM hook to find the dependencies in the new place. | 18:15:41 |
|  kfiz joined the room. | 19:36:00 |
| 6 Dec 2025 |
 Ihar Hrachyshka | Enzime: I think we forced all wrapper users for firefox and thunderbird to build the unwrapped from source :(
fix: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/468288
| 01:27:35 |
| Randy Eckenrode | https://github.com/swiftlang/swift/issues/82990 | 02:02:06 |
| Randy Eckenrode | I get that crash when building swift-corelibs-xctest for Swift Driver. 😕 | 02:02:28 |
| Randy Eckenrode | I think I got the SDK propagation wrong. | 02:08:35 |
| Randy Eckenrode | So close. SwiftPM depends on Swift Driver. I guess I’m going to have stick with the CMake build of Swift Driver. I don’t like that. | 02:45:54 |
| Randy Eckenrode | LLVM has a Darwin libtool? Hmm. | 05:24:40 |
|  P J joined the room. | 07:48:00 |
| niklaskorz | In reply to @emilazy:matrix.org
disclaimer for Gruber, but I have been happy to learn that the person who took responsibility for Liquid Glass and has otherwise overseen the decline in Apple UI design over the past decade has been replaced by an actual interface designer https://daringfireball.net/2025/12/bad_dye_job Amazing... I think I'll just stick to my plan of skipping macOS 26 entirely then. | 08:20:47 |
