| 24 Feb 2026 |
raitobezarius | I care about the consequences for 3rd party software which have stability commitments which are failing to uphold them because they rely on this because people tells them nix-command is defacto stable but it's actually not because someone actually did use the unstable contract to change things | 13:57:50 |
raitobezarius | I don't want to adopt blindly the change and give the signal that it's OK to do this sort of things in the future even more too | 13:58:43 |
Qyriad | There is a problem though in that nix-env and nix profile can't be used together | 13:59:14 |
Qyriad | You can't just stop using nix profile and go back to nix-env without deleting the profile | 13:59:30 |
raitobezarius | This seems like a problem we need to address | 14:00:27 |
Qyriad | Ah, except for nix-env --set. Since that has nothing to do with the profile's manifest and is really about profile generation management than the profile itself | 14:04:09 |
emily | to put it another way: set1 == set2 really ought to be equivalent to attrNames set1 == attrNames set2 && attrValues set1 == attrValues set2. you can always express this in the language and if we model the current behaviour as nondeterministic there's always a conceivable execution trace that matches these semantics. so it doesn't make sense to make equality stricter than that interpretation, which is consistent with lists, consistent with the existing builtins on attrsets, and optimal in terms of runtime performance of the comparison loop. thoughts, @piegames:flausch.social ? | 15:14:44 |
emily | the other reasonable alternative is to make it equivalent to map (name: [ name set1.${name} ]) (attrNames set1) == map (name: [ name set2.${name} ]) (attrNames set2) but this is:
- I think inevitably strictly slower in terms of runtime perf because there are cases where you will recurse into expensive thunks that the other variant never will
- more difficult to express in terms of in-language primitives
- less compatible - for every program that returns true or false from such a comparison, the other variant will also return that value, but this variant will abort/loop forever/throw strictly more often
both of them are entirely consistent with "angelic" choice of nondeterministic comparison orderings, but I don't think the interleaved variant has any merits
| 15:21:32 |
emily | other reasons comparing names separately makes more sense:
- consistent with lists,
[ abort abort ] != [ abort ] compares lengths before values already, and list lengths are analogous to attrset key sets
- indeed the interleaving version can't legitimately even short-circuit on the number of names without complicating semantics because of
{ a = abort; } != { b = abort; c = abort; } -- whereas if you compare names first, you can legitimately do that short circuit because attr name set comparison happens before any thunks are forced
| 15:44:34 |
emily | I'll put a summary of this up on the Nix PR in a few hours since this is getting verbose :) | 15:49:55 |
emily | but I firmly believe attrNames set1 == attrNames set2 && attrValues set1 == attrValues set2 is the right semantics on both practical and theoretical grounds (and we should fix anywhere Nixpkgs still relies on pointer equality dodging type errors/aborts/throws/infinite loops and then move towards not doing that by default) | 15:51:51 |
piegames | Okay | 16:23:57 |
| 25 Feb 2026 |
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| 27 Feb 2026 |
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| 1 Mar 2026 |
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Atemu | How is the lix command's -- supposed to function? Because when I do lix foo somearg -- otherarg, lix eats the -- and strips it from the args passed to lix-foo. It turns -vvvvv.. into -v -v ... too. | 11:43:02 |
Atemu | I'd have expected it to not touch any args after the subcommand | 11:44:22 |
Qyriad | Yeah I think that's a bug | 11:47:12 |
raitobezarius | that's because everything goes via the CLI parser | 11:48:21 |
raitobezarius | but we don't know yet if you are calling a subcommand | 11:48:26 |
raitobezarius | so you are receiving the CLI parser preprocessing which is discussable | 11:48:34 |
raitobezarius | please open a bug indeed with the info and we can take care of it | 11:49:07 |
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piegames | sky1e: What are your plans for the Value outParam CLs? Will you migrate everything given enough time? (Though not sure if migrating all the primops would be a good idea …) | 14:58:43 |