| 6 Mar 2024 |
|  sinavir joined the room. | 13:26:44 |
 patka | Anyway, I have said what I wanted and am going to pull out of this again. Sorry if I stepped on anyones toes. I was just reading this and hoping this wouldn't be how things were normally dealt with. I don't think it's a smart and sustainable way to do conduct business | 13:26:58 |
 raitobezarius | Just to be clear, I stand with @delroth on the CloudFlare choice. | 13:56:15 |
| raitobezarius | We have a clear community with clear opinions and stances w.r.t to CloudFlare history, we don't need to throw them money and be hypocritical about our values | 13:57:18 |
| raitobezarius | This is not the same situation as before where we had zero infra people and had no idea where we will be going, there's plenty of choices and CloudFlare can be heavily penalized in that list so that we won't even need to consider it IMHO | 13:58:12 |
 adamcstephens 🐝 | Do we have a clear community opinion on this? That feels presumptive to me given this discussion and my own personaly opinions. | 13:58:14 |
| adamcstephens 🐝 | * Do we have a clear community opinion on this? That feels presumptive to me given this discussion and my own personal opinions. | 13:58:23 |
 Wanja Hentze | is it specifically an issue with Cloudflare or cloud providers more generally? | 13:58:27 |
| raitobezarius | In reply to @adam:robins.wtf
Do we have a clear community opinion on this? That feels presumptive to me given this discussion and my own personaly opinions. The amount of minorities contributing to our project is a bit visible | 13:58:38 |
| raitobezarius | I took an expansive interpretation of clear stance on this because I assumed that people are aware of what happened with Kiwi Farms :) | 13:59:21 |
| adamcstephens 🐝 | To be clear I have no love for Cloudflare, but I also consider Amazon to be problematic. But they get to fly under the radar I guess. | 13:59:57 |
| raitobezarius | In reply to @whentze:matrix.org
is it specifically an issue with Cloudflare or cloud providers more generally? This is specific to CF regarding their role on enabling certain sorts of consequences in real world from what I see, but maybe delroth had something else in mind | 13:59:57 |
| raitobezarius | Yes | 14:00:06 |
| raitobezarius | I support complete self hosting and minimal cloud computing | 14:00:41 |
| raitobezarius | The NixOS project is not a startup | 14:00:47 |
| raitobezarius | It will exist in a large amount of years | 14:00:56 |
| raitobezarius | Problems like volunteers, inventives structures to maintain infrastructure are solvable | 14:01:13 |
| raitobezarius | I don't think we need to give the money to pay engineers to other companies if we have the pool of talents in our community to do it at cheaper rates | 14:01:36 |
 Domen Kožar | raitobezarius: we have so much stuff to build, I don't understand why pick this fight | 14:02:11 |
| adamcstephens 🐝 | self hosting as much as possible would be my preference as well, but unfortunately it does seem more expensive due to needing to pay people | 14:02:47 |
| raitobezarius | In reply to @domenkozar:matrix.org
raitobezarius: we have so much stuff to build, I don't understand why pick this fight Because things can be parallel, it's not because there's another thing to build that the folks working on that would build it no? | 14:03:00 |
| raitobezarius | And once you have stable infrastructure environment, plenty of things are possible and easier | 14:03:27 |
| raitobezarius | We don't have maintained and stable infrastructure | 14:03:34 |
| raitobezarius | Paying AWS gets us only so far, but not where we need to be | 14:03:45 |
| raitobezarius | In reply to @adam:robins.wtf
self hosting as much as possible would be my preference as well, but unfortunately it does seem more expensive due to needing to pay people I think those are separate questions and problems @ more expensive | 14:04:09 |
| raitobezarius | (this might not be clearly true?) | 14:04:24 |
| adamcstephens 🐝 | it does seem like we already struggle to maintain the infrastructure we already have. maybe some funding could help, but when I look at the state of hydra and ofborg I do have concerns about taking on more of our own infra | 14:04:50 |
| raitobezarius | In reply to @raitobezarius:matrix.org
We don't have maintained and stable infrastructure Well I am undermining the excellent work of the current infra team by saying that | 14:04:54 |
| Domen Kožar | raitobezarius: with all good intentions I have never seen it play out well | 14:04:56 |
| raitobezarius | We didn't have that | 14:04:57 |
