| 22 Jun 2022 |
 Linux Hackerman | In reply to @janejasperous:one.ems.host
nixops is maybe more in terraform league I'd lean towards using terraform over using nixops when the use case is there though | 11:42:55 |
 hexa | because one of these two is actually maintained 😛 | 13:17:22 |
| Linux Hackerman | also because nixops tries to do like 2% of the things that terraform covers and doesn't do as good of a job at it | 13:19:40 |
 jhillyerd | In reply to @schnecfk:ruhr-uni-bochum.de
To add on the answer by Buckley (Which answers why so many alternatives to NixOps appeared), it's also because it's somewhat easy to build such a tool based on nix.
Being a bit handwavy here, but it generally boils down to some combination of nix-build and nix-copy-closure. I've also seen some messages of people doing these steps with a shell script instead of any deployment tool.
This "foundation" is really clear if you've switched the deployment tool (e.g. from nixops to colmena) - you don't have to change that much to get it working, especially in comparison to switching between puppet, ansible or similar tools (or even the initial nix migration).
The deployment tools nonetheless offer a big plus, the more obvious ones would be secret management and the generally better user experience.
It's easy enough to deploy without a tool, I migrated from NixOps to flakes intending to then migrate to Colmena, but still haven't bothered. 😆 NixOps too ambitious with a refactoring effort 1.7 - 1.8/2.0, left things in a broken state for a long time, leaving a multi-year window for other tools to pop up. | 20:27:47 |
| jhillyerd | I was really hoping NixOps + KVM would have given me a self-hosted cloud experience in my homelab, but gave up waiting. | 20:29:02 |
| jhillyerd | * I was really hoping NixOps + libvirt/KVM would have given me a self-hosted cloud experience in my homelab, but gave up waiting. | 20:29:37 |
| 23 Jun 2022 |
 dantefromhell | I was reading on github a bit about bootstrapping w/ colmena and the general answer was "no - because it requires state tracking".
I was pondering if the approach to introduce a `colmena bootstrap` action to isolate bootstrapping from applying would remove the need for tracking state? | 12:23:35 |
 CRTified | In reply to @dantefromhell:matrix.org
I was reading on github a bit about bootstrapping w/ colmena and the general answer was "no - because it requires state tracking".
I was pondering if the approach to introduce a `colmena bootstrap` action to isolate bootstrapping from applying would remove the need for tracking state? I'm not really helpful here, but just for clarification: Are you referring to these PRs? https://github.com/zhaofengli/colmena/issues/42 and https://github.com/zhaofengli/colmena/issues/68 | 12:52:24 |
| CRTified | In reply to @dantefromhell:matrix.org
I was reading on github a bit about bootstrapping w/ colmena and the general answer was "no - because it requires state tracking".
I was pondering if the approach to introduce a `colmena bootstrap` action to isolate bootstrapping from applying would remove the need for tracking state? * I'm not really helpful here, but just for clarification: Are you referring to these Issues? https://github.com/zhaofengli/colmena/issues/42 and https://github.com/zhaofengli/colmena/issues/68 | 12:52:33 |
 David Arnold (blaggacao) | Note that provisioning and bootstrapping are two separate concerns. | 14:23:34 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | Bootstrapping doesn't require tracking state. It only requires a static contract of the (yet) anonymous node. | 14:24:16 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | * Bootstrapping doesn't require tracking state. It only requires a stable contract of the (yet) anonymous node. | 14:24:30 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | How to reach it? And does it comply to any sort of colmena-nixos interface? | 14:25:43 |
 lemmalamma | In reply to @schnecfk:ruhr-uni-bochum.de
I'm not really helpful here, but just for clarification: Are you referring to these Issues? https://github.com/zhaofengli/colmena/issues/42 and https://github.com/zhaofengli/colmena/issues/68 I've also successfully used Pulumi instead of Terraform for provisioning and Colmena takes over after that. I still dream of a world where I can do both with Nix. | 18:34:34 |
| lemmalamma | In reply to @dantefromhell:matrix.org
I was reading on github a bit about bootstrapping w/ colmena and the general answer was "no - because it requires state tracking".
I was pondering if the approach to introduce a `colmena bootstrap` action to isolate bootstrapping from applying would remove the need for tracking state? By bootstrap do you mean provisioning? Apparently some people think it doesn't not necessarily require state: https://www.bejarano.io/terraform-stateless/ | 18:38:13 |
| lemmalamma | In reply to @dantefromhell:matrix.org
I was reading on github a bit about bootstrapping w/ colmena and the general answer was "no - because it requires state tracking".
I was pondering if the approach to introduce a `colmena bootstrap` action to isolate bootstrapping from applying would remove the need for tracking state? * By bootstrap do you mean provisioning? Apparently some people think it does not necessarily require state: https://www.bejarano.io/terraform-stateless/ | 18:38:57 |
|  mutantmell joined the room. | 23:43:51 |
| 24 Jun 2022 |
| dantefromhell | In reply to @schnecfk:ruhr-uni-bochum.de
I'm not really helpful here, but just for clarification: Are you referring to these Issues? https://github.com/zhaofengli/colmena/issues/42 and https://github.com/zhaofengli/colmena/issues/68 thx for clarification: Yes.
In particular #68 but #42 includes some hints towards bootstrapping/ first OS install. | 02:10:10 |
| dantefromhell | I am not looking to automate provisioning of cloud resources (aka their creation) with colmena but the first OS installation (bootstrapping) of cloud and physical servers. | 02:11:17 |
| lemmalamma | Redacted or Malformed Event | 02:33:58 |
| lemmalamma | In reply to @dantefromhell:matrix.org
thx for clarification: Yes.
In particular #68 but #42 includes some hints towards bootstrapping/ first OS install. I had no idea people use Nix for this. I used to do PXE boot. But now most IaaS bundle those 2 things together. For example, you ask for (provision) an EC2 instance running an AMI image (bootstrap). Is your use case like a local bare metal setup? | 02:38:38 |
| hexa | hm, when I set up wireguard tunnels through networkd and I store secrets in /run/keys, with colmena I have a wireguard-privatekey-key.service unit | 10:46:21 |
| hexa | how do I tie that into networkd while making sure that networkd does in fact setup the WAN networking so I can provide those keys | 10:46:48 |
| hexa | with morph I had an action to restart networkd post upload | 10:49:35 |
| hexa | and let networkd fail on bootup | 10:49:45 |
| hexa | with a networkd-restart.service that waits for wireguard-privatekeys-keys.service? 😄 | 11:04:39 |
| Linux Hackerman | hexa: set postStart on the key unit, to run networkctl reconfigure $if? | 11:04:52 |
| Linux Hackerman | Not sure a restart is even needed? | 11:04:59 |
| hexa | oh yeah, that sounds neat | 11:05:11 |
| Linux Hackerman | Or yeah a separate service could be cleaner. | 11:05:18 |
