| 2 May 2024 |
 joepie91 🏳️🌈 | I think "mods should avoid moderating replies to their own messages where possible" is a reasonable approximation of a policy that avoids conflicts of interest, for example | 21:26:29 |
 edef | if nobody is willing to advocate for them, then i think that says enough on its own | 21:26:40 |
 @zimbatm:numtide.com | what I have in mind are multiple instances that happened during the Anduril wars of NixOS 2024. But let me think about it. | 21:31:05 |
 danielle | it is a mostly different set of people | 21:31:27 |
 @hexa:lossy.network | except for me 👋 | 21:31:35 |
| @hexa:lossy.network | and I'm honestly too tired to fight this | 21:32:08 |
 shlevy | I think Jonas Chevalier is right to be concerned about perceived trust in this process, but IMO the way to achieve that is to be very deliberate and cautious about any moderation action and even appearance of impropriety | 21:32:44 |
| shlevy | Removing people from participation in the shaping of the entire future of the project because they’re enabling the process is unjust. | 21:33:16 |
| danielle | That's a big part of why I (mod hat off, wasn't a mod or going to be one earlier) wanted to define the rules of participation ahead of time - so it's clear what style of participation folks are agreeing to - and so it's somewhat easier to resolve things through deescalation rather than moderation. | 21:34:50 |
| danielle | I don't think anyone wants to actually ever use a ban hammer, when it can be avoided by clear communication up front. | 21:37:20 |
| shlevy | In reply to @danielle:fairydust.space
I don't think anyone wants to actually ever use a ban hammer, when it can be avoided by clear communication up front. Without commenting on whether they’re justified or not, the problem is precisely that a number of project contributors think that some people want to use the ban hammer way too often | 21:38:22 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | this problem is understood but fundamentally not really solvable as a whole | 21:38:48 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | specific misunderstandings can be corrected, but a nonzero (however small) amount of people are deliberately creating this impression, and are not shying away from misinformation to do so | 21:39:14 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | that is just the reality that we have to deal with now, basically | 21:39:28 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | lots of people are getting caught up in this purely because they have not followed things closely | 21:39:43 |
 samrose | Some people will definitely just not hear the communication no matter how clear. | 21:39:57 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | so the best we can do under those circumstances is to communicate as clearly as possible, explain where needed, correct misunderstandings where they come up | 21:40:17 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | and even then some subset of people will simply not believe it because of various perception biases, even without any malicious intentions | 21:40:55 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | (such as the one where people tend to believe the version of the story that they hear first, no matter its accuracy) | 21:41:15 |
 7c6f434c | Just in case: my PR 15 against CoC has an implication that up-front communication was not clear enough, which I endorse. (Not saying it is someone's fault, nobody had time to polish things to perfection and guess all the things, etc.) | 21:42:37 |
| samrose | The language gives people a way to resolve disputes | 21:42:38 |
 infinisil | I think the board should just make a decision on https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/144 now | 21:43:41 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | yeah, this risks becoming an arguing magnet rather than substantive review, tbh | 21:44:05 |
| danielle | ronef: you around? | 21:44:20 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | with people trying to frontload the governance process but without any of the safety and moderation mechanisms we've carefully designed | 21:44:25 |
| shlevy | In my view a quick decision without time for serious comments to be made and addressed will be perceived as an illegitimate power play. Depends on how much you’re concerned with the opinions of those who are not convinced about this style of moderation. | 21:44:49 |
| edef | we do have 12 days to go | 21:45:39 |
| edef | which is not a lot of time | 21:45:52 |
| danielle | 11, in 15 minutes | 21:45:53 |
| shlevy | That timeline was also imposed. | 21:45:55 |
