!VyoUhyWvlhSpFWWxHL:matrix.org

Zulip setup coordination

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Coordination to setup https://nixpkgs.zulipchat.com/, see https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/issues/14336 Servers

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2 May 2024
@danielle:fairydust.spacedaniellehttps://matrix.to/#/!VyoUhyWvlhSpFWWxHL:matrix.org/$FAIwNU0gtH55bmI6RNq_hqwf9eLGbXOKDf91MvL_83Y?via=nixos.org&via=matrix.org&via=0upti.me - we already discussed this.20:08:46
@danielle:fairydust.spacedanielle * https://matrix.to/#/!VyoUhyWvlhSpFWWxHL:matrix.org/$FAIwNU0gtH55bmI6RNq_hqwf9eLGbXOKDf91MvL_83Y?via=nixos.org&via=matrix.org&via=0upti.me - we already discussed this (i'd suggest reading that first) 20:09:13
@lovesegfault:matrix.orglovesegfault
In reply to @shlevy:matrix.org
I’m fine subjecting disputed harm questions to moderation. And again, I do not expect to harm anyone with anything I say, I don’t even expect heavy participation. But I do think it would be wrong to commit to a sincere apology for something I disagree with (I don’t even think it’s possible for such an apology to be sincere).
It is entirely possible to sincerely apologize for an unintended effect of an intended action though
20:09:27
@7c6f434c:nitro.chat7c6f434cI do believe different people put and expect quite different levels of sincerity in apologies20:09:34
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 shlevy: to be clear: the apology is for the harm, not for intent or action 20:09:39
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈understanding the reason that something was harmful is a good thing to be doing, but it is not a dependency of the apology component20:10:01
@shlevy:matrix.orgshlevy
In reply to @lovesegfault:matrix.org
It is entirely possible to sincerely apologize for an unintended effect of an intended action though
As I said in the thread, I’m not talking about intent. If you unintentionally do wrong, you should apologize.
20:10:14
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 * shlevy: to be clear: the apology is for the harm, not for intent or action (intended or otherwise) 20:10:33
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 ie. you are not apologizing for what you did, you are apologizing for its impact 20:10:44
@shlevy:matrix.orgshlevy
In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
shlevy: to be clear: the apology is for the harm, not for intent or action (intended or otherwise)
OK, I’m willing to sign on to this.
20:10:46
@danielle:fairydust.spacedanielle

We take responsibility for our impact and our mistakes - if someone says that they have been harmed by our words or actions, we stop, listen, and then apologize sincerely and change behavior.

20:11:05
@danielle:fairydust.spacedanielle^ i was tempted to bold the impact bit, guess i should've done 😅20:11:20
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisilhttps://chat.zulip.org/#narrow/stream/138-user-questions/topic/Increasing.20daily.20invitation.20limit/near/179237220:11:43
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈I am unhappy about github not auto-updating as new comments arrive20:13:14
@shlevy:matrix.orgshlevyYeah I missed several20:13:27
@lovesegfault:matrix.orglovesegfault
In reply to @danielle:fairydust.space

We take responsibility for our impact and our mistakes - if someone says that they have been harmed by our words or actions, we stop, listen, and then apologize sincerely and change behavior.

Who are the arbiters who prevent this from being weaponized?
20:13:49
@danielle:fairydust.spacedanielle
In reply to @lovesegfault:matrix.org
Who are the arbiters who prevent this from being weaponized?
the zulip moderators?
20:14:07
@shlevy:matrix.orgshlevy lovesegfault: If you think someone is accusing in bad faith, get a mod 20:14:10
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 shlevy: I've noted this in the subthread on the PR 20:14:16
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 shlevy: (thumbs up on the comment would be helpful if you agree with the summary, to confirm) 20:14:59
@squalus0:matrix.org@squalus0:matrix.org joined the room.20:15:00
@danielle:fairydust.spacedanielleHow much time do we want to spend replying to comments from people who aren't part of the nix community?20:18:26
@shlevy:matrix.orgshlevy
In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
shlevy: (thumbs up on the comment would be helpful if you agree with the summary, to confirm)
Replied
20:19:42
@7c6f434c:nitro.chat7c6f434cYou want to say «not eligible for Zulip governance read-write access»? (what is a part of Nix community is still in air…) It's true that they kind of don't have true vested interest20:20:09
@7c6f434c:nitro.chat7c6f434c * You want to say «not eligible for Zulip governance read-write access»? (what is to be a part of Nix community is still in the air…) It's true that they kind of don't have true vested interest20:20:35
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 shlevy: thanks 20:23:14
@lovesegfault:matrix.orglovesegfault
In reply to @danielle:fairydust.space
How much time do we want to spend replying to comments from people who aren't part of the nix community?
Almost none, IMO
20:23:50
@lovesegfault:matrix.orglovesegfaultThe most destructive thing to any discussion is someone with no skin in the game20:24:18
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.com
In reply to @shlevy:matrix.org
OK, I’m willing to sign on to this.
Is there a way to phrase that better so you would have understood this in the first read? The difference is quite subtle IMO so it's easy to misunderstand it.
20:25:03
@davsanchez_:matrix.orgDavid SánchezSorry if this has been brought up steady, please feel free to point me for the references if any, but what’s “the community” here? Contributors to nixpkgs?20:25:12

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