| 8 Mar 2024 |
 @zimbatm:numtide.com | I get the feeling, but RFC 98 didn't pass isn't it? | 18:13:44 |
 @piegames:matrix.org | Wow, that RFC really has left some deep traces | 18:14:12 |
| @piegames:matrix.org | Like, I was barely joining the community when all of this happened | 18:14:23 |
 raitobezarius | In reply to @jonringer:matrix.org
This isn't just a recent event. For me, this started with https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/98 when there was an effort to create a moderation body against "fascism". Personally feels like I'm subject to being label whatever is convenient and tossed out like some trash. Is what you are saying that the existence of this RFC created an ambiance or an atmosphere prone to make you feel labelled 'whatever is convenient and tossed out like some trash'? | 18:14:50 |
 @jonringer:matrix.org | Yes. Also I don't think that snooping into the personal lives of individuals is appropriate. People shouldn't be banned for having differing beliefs. If negatively affects their ability to cooperate with others, sure. However, then they can be reprimanded according to their actions, not who they are. | 18:16:08 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | There's many dimensions to this discussion. I don't want to focus on specific events for fear of making a particular event more important that what has been a series of similar events. | 18:17:12 |
| raitobezarius | Why do you think what happened was snooping in the personal life of individuals? | 18:17:13 |
 @hexa:lossy.network | We are not going to revisit the decision and we have no plans to explain ourselves any further. | 18:17:42 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | It did not pass. However, just because something did pass doesn't mean that it's not partially implemented. | 18:18:06 |
|  @jade_:matrix.org left the room. | 18:19:47 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | I'm saying that the people who feel strongly about having an agenda driven moderation body are spread throughout the community. And will be a self-selecting subset of individual to attain positions of power to see their agenda through. | 18:19:52 |
| @piegames:matrix.org | I am disappointed to see how quickly yet another approach at discussing things ends with throwing mud | 18:21:11 |
 ronef | Off topic to the current thread:
Who here plans to physically be at NixCon North America? I'm making plans around potentially having 400+ attendees and want to involve community leads in a bunch of areas on the ground | 18:21:14 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | The current way moderation actions are framed and dealt with leaves a lot to be desired. We now have a CoC but don't remember how srid's actions fit within that context. | 18:21:20 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | This conversation is quite overdue because I know jonringer is not the only one feeling like this. Fear and uncertainty is super toxic and we should try to resolve it. | 18:21:28 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | I will be there | 18:21:34 |
| @piegames:matrix.org | I went into this with the expectation that we'd discuss policies around private rooms for community teams, which is what sparked this discussion in the first place | 18:21:45 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | I feel like private rooms and opaque process are symptoms of the underlying cause. | 18:22:25 |
|  Rosario Pulella joined the room. | 18:24:06 |
| @hexa:lossy.network | the architecture room is part of the space, it is publicly accessible and its history is accessible as for any other room on the space | 18:24:14 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | * I feel like private rooms and opaque process are symptoms of the underlying cause. As a community member I would like to feel engaged in certain things that go on. But having a series of walled gardens creates an environment of "those who need to know" and "those who dont" | 18:24:26 |
| @hexa:lossy.network | the team regularly posted meeting notes to discourse, e.g. https://discourse.nixos.org/t/2022-10-26-nixpkgs-architecture-team-meeting-15/22759 | 18:24:41 |
| @hexa:lossy.network | so i don't see how they should be considered private | 18:24:55 |
| @hexa:lossy.network | https://logs.nixos.dev/room/!djTaTBQyWEPRQxrPTb:nixos.org/ | 18:25:21 |
 infinisil | The architecture team is a bit distracting here. While there was a private room, it was barely used, and definitely not for decision making. | 18:25:55 |
| @piegames:matrix.org | They had a private backroom, see https://matrix.to/#/!djTaTBQyWEPRQxrPTb:nixos.org/$UZbSZ7z9LTm-k8Uo_G9FyAzbm89NJiFF0jd92Cq3CVk?via=nixos.org&via=matrix.org&via=nixos.dev | 18:26:00 |
| infinisil | The main point is that decisions shouldn't be made in private | 18:26:14 |
| @piegames:matrix.org | In reply to @infinisil:matrix.org
The main point is that decisions shouldn't be made in private all decisions? | 18:26:42 |
| infinisil | I like the idea of all official teams with authority to publish a "decision log" in some form | 18:26:48 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | Ah, this is why I didn't really want to move over the conversation. That there was some discussion in private is not really a concern for me, as long as the reasoning behind the decisions is transparent. | 18:26:50 |
