!VyoUhyWvlhSpFWWxHL:matrix.org

Zulip setup coordination

92 Members
Coordination to setup https://nixpkgs.zulipchat.com/, see https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/issues/14329 Servers

Load older messages


SenderMessageTime
8 Mar 2024
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.org * I feel like private rooms and opaque process are symptoms of the underlying cause. As a community member I would like to feel engaged in certain things that go on. But having a series of walled gardens creates an environment of "those who need to know" and "those who dont"18:24:26
@hexa:lossy.network@hexa:lossy.networkthe team regularly posted meeting notes to discourse, e.g. https://discourse.nixos.org/t/2022-10-26-nixpkgs-architecture-team-meeting-15/2275918:24:41
@hexa:lossy.network@hexa:lossy.networkso i don't see how they should be considered private18:24:55
@hexa:lossy.network@hexa:lossy.networkhttps://logs.nixos.dev/room/!djTaTBQyWEPRQxrPTb:nixos.org/18:25:21
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisilThe architecture team is a bit distracting here. While there was a private room, it was barely used, and definitely not for decision making.18:25:55
@piegames:matrix.org@piegames:matrix.orgThey had a private backroom, see https://matrix.to/#/!djTaTBQyWEPRQxrPTb:nixos.org/$UZbSZ7z9LTm-k8Uo_G9FyAzbm89NJiFF0jd92Cq3CVk?via=nixos.org&via=matrix.org&via=nixos.dev18:26:00
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisilThe main point is that decisions shouldn't be made in private18:26:14
@piegames:matrix.org@piegames:matrix.org
In reply to @infinisil:matrix.org
The main point is that decisions shouldn't be made in private
all decisions?
18:26:42
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisilI like the idea of all official teams with authority to publish a "decision log" in some form18:26:48
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.orgAh, this is why I didn't really want to move over the conversation. That there was some discussion in private is not really a concern for me, as long as the reasoning behind the decisions is transparent.18:26:50
@piegames:matrix.org@piegames:matrix.orgWhile I totally agree in general, there are cases which are better handled in private, and I'm not only talking about moderation here18:27:18
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil
In reply to @piegames:matrix.org
all decisions?
I'd think so yeah. Maybe whether to accept new member applications might be the only thing requiring a private discussion
18:27:56
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.org * Ah, this is why I didn't really want to move over the conversation. That there was some discussion in private in this particular case is not really a concern for me, as long as the reasoning behind the decisions is transparent.18:27:59
@piegames:matrix.org@piegames:matrix.org
In reply to @jonringer:matrix.org
Ah, this is why I didn't really want to move over the conversation. That there was some discussion in private in this particular case is not really a concern for me, as long as the reasoning behind the decisions is transparent.
If this is a non-issue to you, then I'm still a bit unclear about what you actually want to discuss right now
18:28:54
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comSometimes it also makes sense also to limit who can speak, because drive-by commenters can be quite disruptive to the flow of conversation. I don't know if we really need to have all the nitty-gritty details exposed all of the time.18:29:12
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.com * Sometimes it also makes sense also to limit who can speak, because drive-by commenters can be quite disruptive to the flow of conversation. I don't know if we really need to have all the nitty-gritty details exposed all of the time (if there is a good recap).18:29:29
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil From what I understand, jonringer probably wants the moderation team to have a public decision log, which would include why the decision was made 18:30:11
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.orgBecause there has been a series of events over the past 3+ years which have been concerning. And each one of these events has usually ended up being highly sided with a political tint. 18:30:25
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.org * Because there has been a series of events over the past 3+ years which have been concerning. And each one of these events has usually ended up being heavily sided with a political tint. 18:30:37
@raitobezarius:matrix.orgraitobezariusMaybe jonringer, you should consider writing more on those concerns, in details18:31:49
@raitobezarius:matrix.orgraitobezariusAnd share them when they are clear, detailed and concrete18:32:09
@raitobezarius:matrix.orgraitobezariusSo far, to me, I really cannot understand what you are saying18:32:20
@piegames:matrix.org@piegames:matrix.org
In reply to @infinisil:matrix.org
From what I understand, jonringer probably wants the moderation team to have a public decision log, which would include why the decision was made
I will happily be in favor of that once some community members stop making a weeks-long blood bath out of every single moderation decision.
Making moderation decisions public as an act of transparency should not be seen as an invitation to publicly debate the entire thing
18:32:26
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.orgCorrect, I would like to see https://github.com/NixOS/moderation/blob/d6f6be09f1250935d7778eed14d4db23a5893c11/moderation-log.md?plain=1#L23 framed in vioilations of the CoC18:33:21
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.org

Maybe jonringer, you should consider writing more on those concerns, in details

That actually might be impossible. When trying to reference event concerning certain individual saying "Fuck you" to multiple people, their posts on Discourse were heavily redacted from the original thread. I'm not equipped with reconstituting every event as it occurred originally.

18:35:26
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.org *

Maybe jonringer, you should consider writing more on those concerns, in details

That actually might be impossible. When trying to reference event concerning certain individual saying "Fuck you" to multiple people, their posts on Discourse were heavily redacted (removed by moderator) from the original thread. I'm not equipped with reconstituting every event as it occurred originally.

18:35:48
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.org *

Maybe jonringer, you should consider writing more on those concerns, in details

That actually might be impossible. When trying to find references around an event concerning certain individual saying "Fuck you" to multiple people, their posts on Discourse were heavily redacted (removed by moderator) from the original thread. I'm not equipped with reconstituting every event as it occurred originally.

18:36:31
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.org

I will happily be in favor of that once some community members stop making a weeks-long blood bath out of every single moderation decision.

We have a reasonable CoC. Moderation actions should be easy to frame in that context.

18:37:25
@apcodes:matrix.org@apcodes:matrix.org

Making moderation decisions public as an act of transparency should not be seen as an invitation to publicly debate the entire thing

I'd say that depends a lot on whether you can actually understand the decision if you kindly ask for an explanation (in private). Because if you cannot understand it, what expectation is being set? I think as Jonas Chevalier mentioned, the uncertainty is a problem.

18:38:31
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.org *

I will happily be in favor of that once some community members stop making a weeks-long blood bath out of every single moderation decision.

We have a reasonable CoC. Moderation actions should be easy to frame in that context.

"User was suspended for verbal harassment of another member."

18:39:02

Show newer messages


Back to Room ListRoom Version: 10