| 7 Mar 2024 |
 @hexa:lossy.network | I'd be fine with a simple nextcloud calendar, but I feel we want an IDM first | 18:48:05 |
 raitobezarius | Ack | 18:51:27 |
| raitobezarius | it is 20:30 CET | 19:31:59 |
| raitobezarius | https://jitsi.lassul.us/nix-team-gathering | 19:32:17 |
| 8 Mar 2024 |
 @zimbatm:numtide.com | sorry I had to skip the call for theatre night. was anything discussed that is relevant to the infra team? | 11:02:02 |
 infinisil | Jonas Chevalier: I just talked about the open nix org effort, nothing else relating to infra was discussed | 11:05:23 |
|  adamcstephens 🐝 joined the room. | 17:56:46 |
|  Dominic Mills joined the room. | 17:57:43 |
|  Sammy (It/Its) joined the room. | 18:05:08 |
 @jonringer:matrix.org | Against my better judgement, moving a discussion from Nixpkgs Architecture to here.
Essentially airing out my dissatisfaction with transparency in certain nixpkgs groups which I think is detrimental to fostering a healthy environment for members to contribute.
| 18:06:48 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | Specifically:
- The inability for community members to be informed as to why decisions are made
- This is bad for providing a sense of agency (ability to determine your fate) to individuals
- The looming threat that you will be the target of moderation actions
| 18:08:52 |
| raitobezarius | Can you be specific?
So you are saying that are you dissatisfied that moderation team banned srid and didn't explain you the full rationale behind the decision publicly? | 18:10:58 |
| raitobezarius | (I feel like I'm having the discussion for the 99th time, so I would appreciate if we could skip the abstract coating and go directly for the hard questions.) | 18:11:29 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | This isn't just a recent event. For me, this started with https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/98 when there was an effort to create a moderation body against "fascism". Personally feels like I'm subject to being label whatever is convenient and tossed out like some trash. | 18:12:20 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | I get the feeling, but RFC 98 didn't pass isn't it? | 18:13:44 |
 @piegames:matrix.org | Wow, that RFC really has left some deep traces | 18:14:12 |
| @piegames:matrix.org | Like, I was barely joining the community when all of this happened | 18:14:23 |
| raitobezarius | In reply to @jonringer:matrix.org
This isn't just a recent event. For me, this started with https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/98 when there was an effort to create a moderation body against "fascism". Personally feels like I'm subject to being label whatever is convenient and tossed out like some trash. Is what you are saying that the existence of this RFC created an ambiance or an atmosphere prone to make you feel labelled 'whatever is convenient and tossed out like some trash'? | 18:14:50 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | Yes. Also I don't think that snooping into the personal lives of individuals is appropriate. People shouldn't be banned for having differing beliefs. If negatively affects their ability to cooperate with others, sure. However, then they can be reprimanded according to their actions, not who they are. | 18:16:08 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | There's many dimensions to this discussion. I don't want to focus on specific events for fear of making a particular event more important that what has been a series of similar events. | 18:17:12 |
| raitobezarius | Why do you think what happened was snooping in the personal life of individuals? | 18:17:13 |
| @hexa:lossy.network | We are not going to revisit the decision and we have no plans to explain ourselves any further. | 18:17:42 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | It did not pass. However, just because something did pass doesn't mean that it's not partially implemented. | 18:18:06 |
|  @jade_:matrix.org left the room. | 18:19:47 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | I'm saying that the people who feel strongly about having an agenda driven moderation body are spread throughout the community. And will be a self-selecting subset of individual to attain positions of power to see their agenda through. | 18:19:52 |
| @piegames:matrix.org | I am disappointed to see how quickly yet another approach at discussing things ends with throwing mud | 18:21:11 |
 ronef | Off topic to the current thread:
Who here plans to physically be at NixCon North America? I'm making plans around potentially having 400+ attendees and want to involve community leads in a bunch of areas on the ground | 18:21:14 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | The current way moderation actions are framed and dealt with leaves a lot to be desired. We now have a CoC but don't remember how srid's actions fit within that context. | 18:21:20 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | This conversation is quite overdue because I know jonringer is not the only one feeling like this. Fear and uncertainty is super toxic and we should try to resolve it. | 18:21:28 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | I will be there | 18:21:34 |
