| 24 Nov 2021 |
 Irenes | sure, that makes sense | 10:23:49 |
| Irenes | I think blocks are necessary and would exist even in my ideal state, but I also think any time they actually happen it's a strong indication that something went wrong | 10:24:10 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town | In reply to @zimbatm:numtide.com
Is there any source material that we can use to learn more about the topic? there's a lot of this material in anarchist theory, but that is maybe not the most accessible option here. if I recall correctly, Freenode used to have a mediation policy that went into some amount of detail about this, but I'm unsure whether it survived the move to Libera | 10:24:45 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | ah, it has! | 10:25:03 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | https://libera.chat/guides/catalyst | 10:25:04 |
| Irenes | ooh | 10:25:09 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | it is somewhat specific to IRC mechanisms but still addresses some de-escalation techniques | 10:25:21 |
| Irenes | right, yeah when I'm rested I can definitely go into detail on this | 10:25:31 |
| Irenes | or rather | 10:25:35 |
| Irenes | probably better if zimbatm leads the conversation but I do have thoughts on how each of these headings plays out in practice | 10:25:51 |
| Irenes | I agree with very nearly all of them | 10:25:58 |
 @zimbatm:numtide.com | thanks, I will have to take some time to read this | 10:26:15 |
| Irenes | and the parts I don't agree with are still true sometimes, just I've seen them be oppressive too | 10:26:16 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | I haven't read the Libera version yet, but the Freenode version did suffer from some cultural holdovers, so it should probably be read with that context in mind - this was written like two decades ago | 10:26:33 |
| Irenes | sure | 10:26:53 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | doesn't make it not useful, just affects the lens to read it through :) | 10:27:00 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | how I see it, a lot of what we do is based on daily practices and cultural norms | 10:27:31 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | adding all of that to the RFC would make it super long | 10:27:45 |
| Irenes | sure | 10:28:04 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | or in most law systems there is the law, and then the interpretation of the court, which is also used | 10:28:17 |
| Irenes | which is why we focused on specifying the very high level philosophy stuff, and creating a process that will allow those norms to persist | 10:28:27 |
| Irenes | but who knows, it may be that the right way really is to spell out all those cultural norms | 10:28:35 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | Jonas Chevalier: as a shorthand answer, the single most reliably effective tool for de-escalation that I have seen is having some people on hand (with or without a formal moderation role) who are able and willing to mediate from an outsider perspective in a conflict, a conflict that they are not personally close to | 10:28:37 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | however, most of my data is from conflicts in a somewhat technical context | 10:29:02 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | where "not being personally close to something" is reliably an option | 10:29:14 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | it gets messier on non-technical topics | 10:29:19 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | yeah I don't know either Irenes. It seems like right now we're in a situation with very few laws, but relatively good/healthy common practices | 10:29:59 |
| Irenes | yeah | 10:30:12 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | like for example, that would reliably work for a conflict about flakes, but I wouldn't be so sure for a conflict about whether something is a bigoted comment | 10:30:14 |
| Irenes | I just want to make sure that situation persists | 10:30:17 |
