| 3 Nov 2021 |
|  Matrix Traveler (bot) joined the room. | 18:22:57 |
|  jonringer joined the room. | 18:23:22 |
|  infinisil set the room topic to "Discussion on RFC 98 [Community Team] https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/98". | 18:24:50 |
|  hexa joined the room. | 18:26:03 |
| jonringer | I guess I'll start it off, I agree with the motivation section, the value section, and some of the transparency in RFC98, however, I think the language of RFC 98 (especially terms like "social norms", "fascism", and "bigotry") Have no place in a foundational "constitution" for a community. It provides a "open for interpretation" to the law, and can be leveraged as, "I don't like their behavior".
I would like to see a CoC similar to rust's CoC which keeps the focus on technology, and makes it clear that malicious behavior is not tolerated. https://www.rust-lang.org/policies/code-of-conduct | 18:27:09 |
| infinisil | To provide a backlink to the previous discussion in #offtopic:nixos.org: https://matrix.to/#/!sgkZKRutwatDMkYBHU:nixos.org/$zpWgO1tKLYI5Hs-t1h_xH_r06IbH4-0riRM8zm9lbNE?via=nixos.org&via=matrix.org&via=nixos.dev | 18:27:51 |
| jonringer | Also, not sure when we will open up the RFC back to RFC, as that would probably the most appropriate setting, as this discussion has no official bearing when the committee will meet to review RFCs | 18:29:55 |
|  ryblade joined the room. | 18:30:18 |
| jonringer | * Also, not sure when we will open up RFC#98 as it's in a request-for-comment phase, but no one is able to comment. The RFC would be the most appropriate setting, as this discussion has no official bearing when the committee will meet to review RFCs | 18:31:13 |
| ryblade | so. it's happening in nixos now too... great, just as i started getting interested in it. | 18:32:50 |
|  moritz.hedtke joined the room. | 18:32:55 |
| jonringer | Moving forward, I would like to split RFC#98 into two RFCs, one defining the CoC for the NixOS ecosystem (with no mention of governing body). And another around the governing body, their powers, and the processes by which they exercise their powers (with no mention to CoC) | 18:35:01 |
| jonringer | Tackling those two domains separately, I think we can arrive at a satisfactory end where the intent of 98 can be achieved, without the dogmatic narrative developed. | 18:36:06 |
|  [0x4A6F] joined the room. | 18:38:25 |
|  philipp joined the room. | 18:39:17 |
| ryblade | gee, it's a good thing the discussion got moved here, offtopic is totally bumping with discussion right now... there was something said like nine minutes ago! :D | 18:40:52 |
| ryblade | jonringer: got any ideas on how to stop this from coming back again and again? something ironclad to keep this authoritarian cancer out for good? the problem is the persistence of these people, they never quit. | 18:43:09 |
 GallantChef | Second. We need to nip this in the bud | 18:43:27 |
|  Domen Kožar joined the room. | 18:43:36 |
| GallantChef | Give them no quarter | 18:43:39 |
| GallantChef | "Welcoming and inclusive" is obviously code for "tolerant of people I like and intolerant of those I dislike" | 18:44:24 |
| ryblade | nixos is TOO IMPORTANT to be destroyed by this, the only outcome i've ever seen of these CoC campaigns is decay, stagnation, division and infighting. | 18:44:32 |
| ryblade | we've got, what, two operating systems based off a declarative model, one of which is based off of this one? | 18:45:19 |
| jonringer | In reply to @ryblade:matrix.org
jonringer: got any ideas on how to stop this from coming back again and again? something ironclad to keep this authoritarian cancer out for good? the problem is the persistence of these people, they never quit. I think having an established, well defined CoC would be the best first step. And use that as guiding principle for all future engagements. As long as nixos is still a community, there will always be some kind of conflict | 18:46:39 |
| ryblade | btw, i love how just by taking this side someone is already trying to assume my gender. i thought that was a cardinal sin among those types. | 18:46:40 |
| GallantChef | I did actually laugh out loud when that happened | 18:46:53 |
| ryblade | in offtopic, not here | 18:46:58 |
| ryblade | should i be reporting that? :D | 18:47:04 |
| GallantChef | Heh | 18:47:08 |
| GallantChef | Well, a well defined CoC that's in-line with values that are truly anti-authoritarian and consistent with distaste for woke nonsense would be great | 18:47:42 |
