| 4 Nov 2021 |
 joepie91 🏳️🌈 | now if your issue is that it has a hidden hierarchy in it, that'd certainly be a valid concern to raise and try to address | 18:16:46 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | but it makes no sense to dismiss a non-hierarchical RFC in its entirety on the basis that "I don't want a hierarchy" | 18:17:07 |
 @jonringer:matrix.org | moderation team is an instance of oligarchy. Although, may have political connotation depending on reader | 18:17:55 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | no, it's not. for something to be an oligarchy, the control needs to be absolute | 18:18:15 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | at least for all practical purposes | 18:18:24 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | which is, again, a thing that only exists in hierarchical organizations | 18:18:34 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | No, it doesn't. Just need to project control | 18:18:39 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | the role of the moderation team in RFC 98 is to be stewards of the community, not controllers of it | 18:18:52 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | Within the nixos community. communication is paramount. The ability to remove someone's voice in the community is essentially control over them | 18:19:03 |
 @zimbatm:numtide.com | I want to make clear that there are two different goals: "acceptance of LGBT", which I am very much in favor for, and this ^ ideology, which in my mind, is counter-productive to the first goal | 18:19:16 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | How do you blaggacao feels about being banned from all official platforms? | 18:19:17 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | and some degree of technical 'control' is necessary to carry out that task, but that is very different from power, which is what you are really talking about | 18:19:20 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | ^ this is back to an authoritarian view of the world | 18:20:04 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | Power can be represented any many forms. The ability to deny someone participation is a form of power (e.g. bans) | 18:20:06 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | anyways, dinner time! | 18:20:15 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | jonringer: sure, it is. power that the community holds in RFC 98, not an oligarchy as you are implying. | 18:20:34 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | I really feel like you're conflating the power and control aspects of this situation | 18:21:00 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | * I really feel like you're conflating the power and control aspects of this proposal | 18:21:07 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | No, the community doesn't hold. Because the moderation team is only responsible for them selves. | 18:21:09 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
now if your issue is that it has a hidden hierarchy in it, that'd certainly be a valid concern to raise and try to address . | 18:21:21 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | I mean, there's already some heirachy with domen, graham, and eelco having admin rights to a lot of the platforms. They just rarely do any moderation because their efforts are else where. | 18:22:15 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | RFC 98 explicitly states that it is meant to provide a non-hierarchical moderation structure. this means that it should explicitly not result in a situation where there is a handful of people who are unaccountable to the community. if you believe that the proposal, as it stands, does do that... then that is a bug in the RFC that needs to be raised and addressed. | 18:22:21 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | but then you will need to be a lot more specific about how that situation would come to exist | 18:22:41 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | and not just say "it's an oligarchy!" | 18:22:45 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | "It means" doesn't mean "it will" | 18:22:45 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | In reply to @jonringer:matrix.org
I mean, there's already some heirachy with domen, graham, and eelco having admin rights to a lot of the platforms. They just rarely do any moderation because their efforts are else where. this is pre-RFC 98. | 18:23:26 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | therefore not a relevant criticism of RFC 98. | 18:23:33 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | That was in response to your comment about the community not having a heirarchy | 18:24:04 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | It does, it's just rarely used. | 18:24:15 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | what? I never claimed that "the community doesn't have a hierarchy" | 18:24:46 |
