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RFC 98 Chat

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Discussion on RFC 98 [Community Team] https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/9817 Servers

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4 Nov 2021
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈now if your issue is that it has a hidden hierarchy in it, that'd certainly be a valid concern to raise and try to address18:16:46
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈but it makes no sense to dismiss a non-hierarchical RFC in its entirety on the basis that "I don't want a hierarchy"18:17:07
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.orgmoderation team is an instance of oligarchy. Although, may have political connotation depending on reader18:17:55
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈no, it's not. for something to be an oligarchy, the control needs to be absolute18:18:15
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈at least for all practical purposes18:18:24
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈which is, again, a thing that only exists in hierarchical organizations18:18:34
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.orgNo, it doesn't. Just need to project control18:18:39
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 the role of the moderation team in RFC 98 is to be stewards of the community, not controllers of it 18:18:52
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.orgWithin the nixos community. communication is paramount. The ability to remove someone's voice in the community is essentially control over them18:19:03
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comI want to make clear that there are two different goals: "acceptance of LGBT", which I am very much in favor for, and this ^ ideology, which in my mind, is counter-productive to the first goal18:19:16
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.orgHow do you blaggacao feels about being banned from all official platforms?18:19:17
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 and some degree of technical 'control' is necessary to carry out that task, but that is very different from power, which is what you are really talking about 18:19:20
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.com^ this is back to an authoritarian view of the world18:20:04
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.orgPower can be represented any many forms. The ability to deny someone participation is a form of power (e.g. bans)18:20:06
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comanyways, dinner time!18:20:15
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 jonringer: sure, it is. power that the community holds in RFC 98, not an oligarchy as you are implying. 18:20:34
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈I really feel like you're conflating the power and control aspects of this situation18:21:00
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 * I really feel like you're conflating the power and control aspects of this proposal18:21:07
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.orgNo, the community doesn't hold. Because the moderation team is only responsible for them selves.18:21:09
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈
In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
now if your issue is that it has a hidden hierarchy in it, that'd certainly be a valid concern to raise and try to address
.
18:21:21
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.orgI mean, there's already some heirachy with domen, graham, and eelco having admin rights to a lot of the platforms. They just rarely do any moderation because their efforts are else where.18:22:15
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 RFC 98 explicitly states that it is meant to provide a non-hierarchical moderation structure. this means that it should explicitly not result in a situation where there is a handful of people who are unaccountable to the community. if you believe that the proposal, as it stands, does do that... then that is a bug in the RFC that needs to be raised and addressed. 18:22:21
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈but then you will need to be a lot more specific about how that situation would come to exist18:22:41
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈and not just say "it's an oligarchy!"18:22:45
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.org"It means" doesn't mean "it will"18:22:45
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈
In reply to @jonringer:matrix.org
I mean, there's already some heirachy with domen, graham, and eelco having admin rights to a lot of the platforms. They just rarely do any moderation because their efforts are else where.
this is pre-RFC 98.
18:23:26
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈therefore not a relevant criticism of RFC 98.18:23:33
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.orgThat was in response to your comment about the community not having a heirarchy18:24:04
@jonringer:matrix.org@jonringer:matrix.orgIt does, it's just rarely used.18:24:15
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈what? I never claimed that "the community doesn't have a hierarchy"18:24:46

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