| 4 Nov 2021 |
 Jonas Chevalier | what I mean is that there is a specific order that is being painted | 18:07:10 |
| Jonas Chevalier | and sorry to those who have been though this 1000 times :p | 18:07:36 |
 joepie91 🏳️🌈 | In reply to @zimbatm:numtide.com
what I mean is that there is a specific order that is being painted yes, there is. and contrary to what people often claim, that is not actually a bad thing - it's explicitly calling things out instead of leaving them implicit. | 18:08:11 |
| Jonas Chevalier | ^ this whole notion is basically what people call "woke" | 18:08:18 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | there is a specific order in society. that is true whether or not you call it out. | 18:08:34 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | we live in a hierarchical society. | 18:08:48 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | I just choose to be explicit about calling out that order and how to counteract it, as best as possible with the means available. | 18:09:06 |
| Jonas Chevalier | see, this is really the problematic part | 18:09:15 |
| Jonas Chevalier | by opening this box, now you're thinking of rewriting society as a whole to fix the injustices of the world | 18:09:42 |
| Jonas Chevalier | now you're going to say that it falls on the NixOS project to participate in that grand effort | 18:10:06 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | not exactly. | 18:10:15 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | I am an activist, so yes, I am thinking a lot about 'rewriting society', if that's the terminology you want to use. but in this specific discussion, that is not my goal | 18:10:40 |
| Jonas Chevalier | it's reminiscent of communism, except that people are categorized by minorities instead of classes | 18:10:58 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | in the case of NixOS specifically, it's not about changing society through NixOS; it's about structuring NixOS to shield itself from the fallout of society | 18:11:05 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | which is to say, accepting that there are injustices and power imbalances in society, and those will filter through in interactions with people who live in that society, and so to maintain a healthy community which does not suffer from those exact same injustices, you need to actively watch for and counteract those things | 18:12:04 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | it's more putting a piece of cardboard under a wobbly table, than trying to reform the table manufacturing industry | 18:12:36 |
| Jonas Chevalier | instead of just being happy to be part of this community, the request is that it also becomes an instrument for the better good | 18:12:43 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | as I have just said, it's not. | 18:12:57 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | I certainly work towards a 'better good' on a personal level, as an activist. but "NixOS community management" does not play a role in that | 18:13:46 |
 jonringer | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
as I have just said, it's not. For RFC 98, it is. Language like "social norms" definitely give a "leverage NixOS as a platform to enact an agenda" | 18:13:58 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | NixOS community management is about the NixOS community | 18:14:04 |
| jonringer | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
as I have just said, it's not. * For RFC 98, it is. Language like "social norms" definitely gives a "leverage NixOS as a platform to enact an agenda" | 18:14:05 |
| jonringer | * For RFC 98, it is. Language like "social norms" definitely gives a "leverage NixOS as a platform to enact an agenda" connotation | 18:14:27 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | jonringer: social norms are a completely normal part of any kind of community management. I'm honestly not sure why you're seeing more in it than that | 18:14:50 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | like, the "house rules" at your local amateur soccer club serve the exact same purpose | 18:15:18 |
| jonringer | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
jonringer: social norms are a completely normal part of any kind of community management. I'm honestly not sure why you're seeing more in it than that Yes, and I'm defining the social norms in RFC 114. Not leaving it up to interpretation by an oligarchy. | 18:15:27 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | RFC 98 is, again, explicitly non-hierarchical. "oligarchy" is a very strange choice of words | 18:15:51 |
| jonringer |
noun: oligarchy; plural noun: oligarchies
a small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution.
| 18:16:24 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | yes, it is a hierarchical structure | 18:16:34 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | RFC 98 explicitly seeks to avoid these | 18:16:39 |
