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RFC 98 Chat

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Discussion on RFC 98 [Community Team] https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/9817 Servers

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24 Nov 2021
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈in the same way that 'communication' in general isn't10:46:30
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comit's because the value is not immediately apparent10:46:51
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈that is probably a part of it, but there's another factor that I think should not be underestimated: the amount of people who went into computers because "computers are much easier to deal with than people"10:47:23
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comI think we can get quite far by setting up a team and try some of these things out, without the enforcement side10:47:24
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comI'm definitely one of those people :)10:47:47
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.com * I think we can get quite far by setting up a team and try some of these things out, without the enforcement side (not saying we don't need the RFC)10:48:20
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 many people in tech communities are, but that has also shaped the culture around tech to consider 'dealing with humans' optional, which has a lot of ramifications not just in terms of moderation, but also project management, etc. 10:48:23
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.coma good example of this is the decision-making process in the Nix community, for technical things10:49:41
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comI noticed that things tend to be worked on alone10:50:10
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comit works fine for package bumps10:50:21
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comwhen the topic gets too large, we often end in decision-paralysis10:50:41
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈yeah10:50:54
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comtypically what happens is that there is a lot of armchair commenting happening, and that one alone person gets discouraged10:51:22
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈right, because we don't really have constructive collaboration structures in place10:51:41
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comthis is one of the biggest problems of the Nix community, in my view10:52:28
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 it's a part of why I think we should expect people to learn about communication and community management, despite that not being the dominant culture 10:52:31
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comit leads to a lot of burn outs10:52:46
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈it's simply necessary to keep the project healthy10:52:47
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.combut that feels almost separate to moderation10:53:15
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈well, that depends10:53:24
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 it is separate from punitive moderation, for sure, but that is not really the priority that we are going for here 10:53:38
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comthat's the thing I was wondering about10:53:52
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comwhat if mediation and moderation were separate teams10:54:04
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈 but constructive moderation, in terms of de-escalation and mediation and constructive feedback and such, overlaps very strongly with project management concerns 10:54:10
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comI'm not sure how people take the feedback from somebody that can ban them10:54:35
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comof course they might decide not to listen, which is why banning is requested as a tool10:55:19
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈that is a complicated dynamic, for sure. but the alternative also has its issues; if the two don't function as one, things will fail both ways... moderators will interfere with a mediator's process in some cases, and fail to ban people who refuse the mediation process in other cases10:55:35
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comthe flipside is that people will not be open because of the ban threat10:55:44
@joepie91:pixie.townjoepie91 🏳️‍🌈so you'd need a degree of coordination between the two that makes them de facto one thing10:55:54
@zimbatm:numtide.com@zimbatm:numtide.comright, I would expect the moderation team to take inputs from the mediation team10:56:28

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