| 24 Nov 2021 |
 Irenes | and the parts I don't agree with are still true sometimes, just I've seen them be oppressive too | 10:26:16 |
 joepie91 🏳️🌈 | I haven't read the Libera version yet, but the Freenode version did suffer from some cultural holdovers, so it should probably be read with that context in mind - this was written like two decades ago | 10:26:33 |
| Irenes | sure | 10:26:53 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | doesn't make it not useful, just affects the lens to read it through :) | 10:27:00 |
 @zimbatm:numtide.com | how I see it, a lot of what we do is based on daily practices and cultural norms | 10:27:31 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | adding all of that to the RFC would make it super long | 10:27:45 |
| Irenes | sure | 10:28:04 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | or in most law systems there is the law, and then the interpretation of the court, which is also used | 10:28:17 |
| Irenes | which is why we focused on specifying the very high level philosophy stuff, and creating a process that will allow those norms to persist | 10:28:27 |
| Irenes | but who knows, it may be that the right way really is to spell out all those cultural norms | 10:28:35 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | Jonas Chevalier: as a shorthand answer, the single most reliably effective tool for de-escalation that I have seen is having some people on hand (with or without a formal moderation role) who are able and willing to mediate from an outsider perspective in a conflict, a conflict that they are not personally close to | 10:28:37 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | however, most of my data is from conflicts in a somewhat technical context | 10:29:02 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | where "not being personally close to something" is reliably an option | 10:29:14 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | it gets messier on non-technical topics | 10:29:19 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | yeah I don't know either Irenes. It seems like right now we're in a situation with very few laws, but relatively good/healthy common practices | 10:29:59 |
| Irenes | yeah | 10:30:12 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | like for example, that would reliably work for a conflict about flakes, but I wouldn't be so sure for a conflict about whether something is a bigoted comment | 10:30:14 |
| Irenes | I just want to make sure that situation persists | 10:30:17 |
| Irenes | and also that it actually includes our minorities, because I will tell you that if something doesn't get passed, a lot of people are going to give up on Nix | 10:30:50 |
| Irenes | doesn't necessarily have to be 98, just has to be something that works | 10:31:00 |
| Irenes | we've all seen this play out in other places, places less worth trying to save | 10:31:24 |
| Irenes | I personally have an almost infinite amount of patience | 10:31:35 |
| Irenes | but I'm an anomaly | 10:31:40 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | yeah, I strongly believe that everybody should be able to participate in the project, without having to fear personal attacks | 10:31:40 |
| Irenes | yeah | 10:31:44 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | it's weird to me we even have to specify this, and make it a thing | 10:32:33 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | another thing that also works quite well is leadership by example. It's one of those "what would jesus do" kind of situation :p | 10:34:16 |
| Irenes | it's no longer weird to me but it's incredibly tiring | 10:34:29 |
| Irenes | sur | 10:34:34 |
| Irenes | e | 10:34:35 |
