| 4 Nov 2021 |
 joepie91 π³οΈβπ | I do not believe that this is a desirable goal for the NixOS community, nor that it will lead to a healthy community | 15:52:54 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | in fact, it is the precise thing that this RFC (and the whole conversation around it for the past hour or two) is aiming to move away from - that implicit unspoken set of social norms that makes it vaguer and vaguer what the actual values of the community are | 15:53:26 |
 GallantChef | Only your view will lead to a healthy community | 15:53:27 |
| GallantChef | That's what it sounds like to me | 15:53:33 |
| GallantChef | Almost everyone in the room has been arguing against you exclusively | 15:53:54 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | GallantChef: okay, I'm going to have to be a bit more blunt here to make my point clear: what you are arguing for, is to give equal value to oppressive and fascist ideology, as to inclusive and empathic ideology. in other words, to "make room for fascism". and yes, I can decidedly say that regardless of implementation details, this will lead to a toxic community. | 15:54:37 |
 piegames | In reply to @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life
Almost everyone in the room has been arguing against you exclusively You clearly don't know how many people are just reading the conversation, and silently shaking their head at every of your messages. | 15:54:56 |
| GallantChef | The only toxicity I've ever seen in this community, is somebody pushing for the ability to ban anyone they don't agree with | 15:55:03 |
 Domen KoΕΎar | The current unknown membership status of 98 doesn't signal trust and thus leaves room for speculation for such questions as why are the members hidden of they are neutral | 15:55:08 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | I am open to discussion on a lot of details regarding community management, but "fascism and bigotry are undesirable and we should be empathic and inclusive instead" is a position that I will not, under any circumstances, deviate from | 15:55:20 |
| Domen KoΕΎar | * The current unknown membership status of 98 doesn't signal trust and thus leaves room for speculation for such questions as why are the members hidden if they are neutral | 15:55:25 |
| Domen KoΕΎar | joepie91 π³οΈβπ fascism is not a defined term | 15:56:27 |
 @zimbatm:numtide.com | This whole Alt-left vs Alt-right is irrelevant to NixOS. Why are we even talking about that | 15:56:51 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | it's actually fairly well-defined, even if adherence to the definition is... not great | 15:56:52 |
| Domen KoΕΎar | How do you define it then? | 15:57:17 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | but feel free to replace it with "oppressive authoritarianism" if you prefer, for the purpose of this conversation they're mostly interchangeable | 15:57:31 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | and that's maybe a bit more of a "says it on the tin" term for it | 15:57:58 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | You can be alt-right or alt-left and contribute to nixpkgs. Just don't come talk or try to impose your political views. | 15:58:01 |
 jonringer | I would really like to remove the political labels from the discussion. They have charged meaning, and are likely more disruptive to the conversation than productive | 15:58:24 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | We are beings with multiple dimensions | 15:58:27 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | We can have a productive conversation, and have different views of the world | 15:58:43 |
| GallantChef | I've legit been losing sleep over this, so I'm going to leave the community for now. I legitimately wish you all well, and I hope from the bottom of my heart that together you come to a solution that works for everyone | 15:59:08 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | In reply to @domenkozar:matrix.org
So it's allowed to be prejudiced based ona sum of identify but not on a sum of deliberate choices? anyway, I was going to ask: I'm not entirely sure what you mean with this, can you clarify? | 15:59:10 |
| jonringer | RFC 98 is about enacting a moderation team, the discussion should related to the content; without too much extra | 15:59:26 |
| GallantChef | I bear no one any enmity, not even joepie. I apologize if my speech sounded accusative or rude. Thank you for your patience | 15:59:38 |
| GallantChef left the room. | 15:59:49 |
| Domen KoΕΎar | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
but feel free to replace it with "oppressive authoritarianism" if you prefer, for the purpose of this conversation they're mostly interchangeable Can we then replace it with that term, as I think it's less vague? | 16:04:36 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | jonringer: also, did you understand what I meant with the point about sometimes needing 'policy shortcuts' for effective moderation? as that topic kinda got interrupted :p | 16:04:38 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | In reply to @domenkozar:matrix.org
Can we then replace it with that term, as I think it's less vague? a term like that or similar sounds like it would be a good idea, yeah | 16:05:04 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | there's probably a more exact term that I can't immediately think of | 16:05:14 |
