| 4 Nov 2021 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town | In reply to @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life
Talking about bans on ideologies is inherently auth. Defending language such as "fascism, bigotry, etc." is inherently AuthLeft it is very much not, and this is decidedly diverging from the actual conversation topic of this room. I've answered your question regarding the authoritarian left in good faith, but that was not an invitation to start trying to redefine the term and steer the conversation towards party politics | 15:50:51 |
 Domen Kožar | For example in balkans ad hominem attacks are used to express love | 15:50:59 |
| Domen Kožar | Most people here would consider that a net negative | 15:51:15 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | as I have expressed before, I do not want this conversation to be about left vs. right. | 15:51:45 |
 GallantChef | I'm not interested in party politics, I'm interested in ensuring that the future mod team doesn't have a lean one way or the other | 15:51:53 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | you are arguing for 'neutrality', which is not a thing that exists, and which will always, always end up supporting the dominant social/political group | 15:52:26 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | whatever it is at the time | 15:52:36 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | I do not believe that this is a desirable goal for the NixOS community, nor that it will lead to a healthy community | 15:52:54 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | in fact, it is the precise thing that this RFC (and the whole conversation around it for the past hour or two) is aiming to move away from - that implicit unspoken set of social norms that makes it vaguer and vaguer what the actual values of the community are | 15:53:26 |
| GallantChef | Only your view will lead to a healthy community | 15:53:27 |
| GallantChef | That's what it sounds like to me | 15:53:33 |
| GallantChef | Almost everyone in the room has been arguing against you exclusively | 15:53:54 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | GallantChef: okay, I'm going to have to be a bit more blunt here to make my point clear: what you are arguing for, is to give equal value to oppressive and fascist ideology, as to inclusive and empathic ideology. in other words, to "make room for fascism". and yes, I can decidedly say that regardless of implementation details, this will lead to a toxic community. | 15:54:37 |
 @piegames:matrix.org | In reply to @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life
Almost everyone in the room has been arguing against you exclusively You clearly don't know how many people are just reading the conversation, and silently shaking their head at every of your messages. | 15:54:56 |
| GallantChef | The only toxicity I've ever seen in this community, is somebody pushing for the ability to ban anyone they don't agree with | 15:55:03 |
| Domen Kožar | The current unknown membership status of 98 doesn't signal trust and thus leaves room for speculation for such questions as why are the members hidden of they are neutral | 15:55:08 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | I am open to discussion on a lot of details regarding community management, but "fascism and bigotry are undesirable and we should be empathic and inclusive instead" is a position that I will not, under any circumstances, deviate from | 15:55:20 |
| Domen Kožar | * The current unknown membership status of 98 doesn't signal trust and thus leaves room for speculation for such questions as why are the members hidden if they are neutral | 15:55:25 |
| Domen Kožar | joepie91 🏳️🌈 fascism is not a defined term | 15:56:27 |
 @zimbatm:numtide.com | This whole Alt-left vs Alt-right is irrelevant to NixOS. Why are we even talking about that | 15:56:51 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | it's actually fairly well-defined, even if adherence to the definition is... not great | 15:56:52 |
| Domen Kožar | How do you define it then? | 15:57:17 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | but feel free to replace it with "oppressive authoritarianism" if you prefer, for the purpose of this conversation they're mostly interchangeable | 15:57:31 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | and that's maybe a bit more of a "says it on the tin" term for it | 15:57:58 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | You can be alt-right or alt-left and contribute to nixpkgs. Just don't come talk or try to impose your political views. | 15:58:01 |
 jonringer | I would really like to remove the political labels from the discussion. They have charged meaning, and are likely more disruptive to the conversation than productive | 15:58:24 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | We are beings with multiple dimensions | 15:58:27 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | We can have a productive conversation, and have different views of the world | 15:58:43 |
| GallantChef | I've legit been losing sleep over this, so I'm going to leave the community for now. I legitimately wish you all well, and I hope from the bottom of my heart that together you come to a solution that works for everyone | 15:59:08 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | In reply to @domenkozar:matrix.org
So it's allowed to be prejudiced based ona sum of identify but not on a sum of deliberate choices? anyway, I was going to ask: I'm not entirely sure what you mean with this, can you clarify? | 15:59:10 |
