| 4 Nov 2021 |
 GallantChef | Talking about bans on ideologies is inherently auth. Defending language such as "fascism, bigotry, etc." is inherently AuthLeft | 15:49:50 |
| GallantChef | If that's not your intention, then I can respect that. | 15:50:03 |
| GallantChef | But please, let's try and keep it moderate | 15:50:10 |
 Domen Koลพar | You consider someone net negative based on judging their morals, that's how humans work | 15:50:40 |
 joepie91 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ | In reply to @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life
Talking about bans on ideologies is inherently auth. Defending language such as "fascism, bigotry, etc." is inherently AuthLeft it is very much not, and this is decidedly diverging from the actual conversation topic of this room. I've answered your question regarding the authoritarian left in good faith, but that was not an invitation to start trying to redefine the term and steer the conversation towards party politics | 15:50:51 |
| Domen Koลพar | For example in balkans ad hominem attacks are used to express love | 15:50:59 |
| Domen Koลพar | Most people here would consider that a net negative | 15:51:15 |
| joepie91 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ | as I have expressed before, I do not want this conversation to be about left vs. right. | 15:51:45 |
| GallantChef | I'm not interested in party politics, I'm interested in ensuring that the future mod team doesn't have a lean one way or the other | 15:51:53 |
| joepie91 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ | you are arguing for 'neutrality', which is not a thing that exists, and which will always, always end up supporting the dominant social/political group | 15:52:26 |
| joepie91 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ | whatever it is at the time | 15:52:36 |
| joepie91 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ | I do not believe that this is a desirable goal for the NixOS community, nor that it will lead to a healthy community | 15:52:54 |
| joepie91 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ | in fact, it is the precise thing that this RFC (and the whole conversation around it for the past hour or two) is aiming to move away from - that implicit unspoken set of social norms that makes it vaguer and vaguer what the actual values of the community are | 15:53:26 |
| GallantChef | Only your view will lead to a healthy community | 15:53:27 |
| GallantChef | That's what it sounds like to me | 15:53:33 |
| GallantChef | Almost everyone in the room has been arguing against you exclusively | 15:53:54 |
| joepie91 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ | GallantChef: okay, I'm going to have to be a bit more blunt here to make my point clear: what you are arguing for, is to give equal value to oppressive and fascist ideology, as to inclusive and empathic ideology. in other words, to "make room for fascism". and yes, I can decidedly say that regardless of implementation details, this will lead to a toxic community. | 15:54:37 |
 piegames | In reply to @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life
Almost everyone in the room has been arguing against you exclusively You clearly don't know how many people are just reading the conversation, and silently shaking their head at every of your messages. | 15:54:56 |
| GallantChef | The only toxicity I've ever seen in this community, is somebody pushing for the ability to ban anyone they don't agree with | 15:55:03 |
| Domen Koลพar | The current unknown membership status of 98 doesn't signal trust and thus leaves room for speculation for such questions as why are the members hidden of they are neutral | 15:55:08 |
| joepie91 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ | I am open to discussion on a lot of details regarding community management, but "fascism and bigotry are undesirable and we should be empathic and inclusive instead" is a position that I will not, under any circumstances, deviate from | 15:55:20 |
| Domen Koลพar | * The current unknown membership status of 98 doesn't signal trust and thus leaves room for speculation for such questions as why are the members hidden if they are neutral | 15:55:25 |
| Domen Koลพar | joepie91 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ fascism is not a defined term | 15:56:27 |
 Jonas Chevalier | This whole Alt-left vs Alt-right is irrelevant to NixOS. Why are we even talking about that | 15:56:51 |
| joepie91 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ | it's actually fairly well-defined, even if adherence to the definition is... not great | 15:56:52 |
| Domen Koลพar | How do you define it then? | 15:57:17 |
| joepie91 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ | but feel free to replace it with "oppressive authoritarianism" if you prefer, for the purpose of this conversation they're mostly interchangeable | 15:57:31 |
| joepie91 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ | and that's maybe a bit more of a "says it on the tin" term for it | 15:57:58 |
| Jonas Chevalier | You can be alt-right or alt-left and contribute to nixpkgs. Just don't come talk or try to impose your political views. | 15:58:01 |
 jonringer | I would really like to remove the political labels from the discussion. They have charged meaning, and are likely more disruptive to the conversation than productive | 15:58:24 |
