| 4 Nov 2021 |
 Jonas Chevalier | I think we all want to get back to a positive environment where we enjoy hacking on Nix. Being able to escape from the reality of the world is an important feature that I get from hacking on the project. | 15:43:57 |
 GallantChef | Enshrining something like that in writing would actually encourage extremism rather than combat it | 15:44:09 |
 Domen KoΕΎar | Our choices are limited by our own beliefs π€ | 15:44:38 |
| GallantChef | Further more, prescribing correct belief systems and incorrect ones isn't conducive towards forming a moderation team | 15:44:49 |
| GallantChef | This is a fundamentally non-partisan issue | 15:44:56 |
 joepie91 π³οΈβπ | Domen KoΕΎar: in the case of alt-right ideology specifically, it is certainly a choice to express it outwardly - people generally have the option to not adhere to it, or at the very least treat it as "yes this is what I grew up in but I'm working on it", and so I consider it reasonable to hold people accountable for it. in the context of a decidedly harmful ideology, which means there's a threat to the community, the decision then becomes "this is not welcome here" | 15:45:11 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | one "metric" I often use is "does this person's presence in the community constitute a net positive or a net negative effect on that community?" | 15:45:52 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | folks who unabashedly adhere to alt-right ideology fall far on the "net negative" side of that spectrum almost without exception | 15:46:23 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | (almost always also in ways that are not directly connectable to "alt-right ideology", like a general unwillingness to consider other people's point of view in technical discussions for example) | 15:47:13 |
| GallantChef | I'm asking in good faith, just as you demonize the alt-right, can we demonize AuthLeft? | 15:47:22 |
| GallantChef | Fundamentally that's what the reaction against RFC0098 is, a reaction against AuthLeft | 15:47:49 |
| GallantChef | I want to see a moderate, non-partisan solution to moderation | 15:48:05 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | GallantChef: I am personally strongly opposed to the authoritarian "left" (though I do not really consider them "left" personally) - however, considering that they are not a dominant social or political force, they are pretty much irrelevant from a community management perspective | 15:48:06 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | this does not apply to the alt-right | 15:48:17 |
| GallantChef | That's interesting | 15:48:29 |
 piegames | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
one "metric" I often use is "does this person's presence in the community constitute a net positive or a net negative effect on that community?" This. I noticed that many of the more vocal and hostile actors in all those heated discussions aren't actually that involved in the community. However in the other direction that's far more difficult: just because a person is invaluable to the community doesn't allow them to be a total ass. | 15:48:33 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | who, especially in privacy/security circles, come rolling in at a ridiculous rate | 15:48:38 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | also, to be clear, I am not suggesting a blanket ban on alt-right ideology in the NixOS community - I have not yet seen a reason to need to do so | 15:49:06 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | I'm just bringing it up as an example of a past situation where a 'policy shortcut' was necessary to keep moderation workable | 15:49:29 |
| GallantChef | Talking about bans on ideologies is inherently auth. Defending language such as "fascism, bigotry, etc." is inherently AuthLeft | 15:49:50 |
| GallantChef | If that's not your intention, then I can respect that. | 15:50:03 |
| GallantChef | But please, let's try and keep it moderate | 15:50:10 |
| Domen KoΕΎar | You consider someone net negative based on judging their morals, that's how humans work | 15:50:40 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | In reply to @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life
Talking about bans on ideologies is inherently auth. Defending language such as "fascism, bigotry, etc." is inherently AuthLeft it is very much not, and this is decidedly diverging from the actual conversation topic of this room. I've answered your question regarding the authoritarian left in good faith, but that was not an invitation to start trying to redefine the term and steer the conversation towards party politics | 15:50:51 |
| Domen KoΕΎar | For example in balkans ad hominem attacks are used to express love | 15:50:59 |
| Domen KoΕΎar | Most people here would consider that a net negative | 15:51:15 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | as I have expressed before, I do not want this conversation to be about left vs. right. | 15:51:45 |
| GallantChef | I'm not interested in party politics, I'm interested in ensuring that the future mod team doesn't have a lean one way or the other | 15:51:53 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | you are arguing for 'neutrality', which is not a thing that exists, and which will always, always end up supporting the dominant social/political group | 15:52:26 |
| joepie91 π³οΈβπ | whatever it is at the time | 15:52:36 |
