| 4 Nov 2021 |
 @zimbatm:numtide.com | my experience with the nix community in the past has been really positive, I was generally impressed by people's tolerance and understanding for each other's point of views. It's only once we started adding politics that things started being sour.
Now I read that this hasn't been the case for everybody, and that sucks, and I want to better understand these issues. | 13:51:14 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | there are existing technical leadership issues which make people bounce, but those are separate from moderation issues, unless you include moderation to resolve technical issues as well | 13:52:42 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | I know I'm being naive but I really hope that we can focus more on our shared love of technology and the project instead of our differences | 13:56:22 |
 Jan Tojnar | In reply to @zimbatm:numtide.com
I want to learn more about what issues we have today, so if you see anything, please send it my way the whole point is that we cannot just focus on what we have today, the community is growing and that will inevitably change the culture | 14:00:16 |
| Jan Tojnar | and if we wait until issues achieve critical mass to solve them, the community will already be damaged | 14:01:00 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | I don't think anybody in here is arguing against having a moderation team | 14:04:18 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | We could actually focus on improving today's moderation, it would be a good step forward | 14:05:36 |
| Jan Tojnar | well, moderable offences are not the only threat to community | 14:05:35 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town |
It's only once we started adding politics that things started being sour.
this is very much false - you are mistaking "I didn't see any obvious issues" for "there are no issues", and "calling out growing problems in the community" as "adding politics"
| 14:06:00 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | it doesn't magically become politics when something gets called out | 14:06:15 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | so are there issue, or not | 14:06:30 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | * so are there issues, or not | 14:06:34 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | I keep seeing this flip-flop | 14:06:42 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | yes, there are issues. and right now they are small enough that the community mostly gets by, but they are definitely there, and as Nix is rapidly growing more popular those problems will be exacerbated significantly if we do not think about durable ways to handle this sort of thing going forward | 14:07:21 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | I have already described one such issue above | 14:07:35 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | please be specific | 14:07:38 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | (the IRC incident) | 14:07:41 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | isn't that withing the bounds of normal human interactions? | 14:07:57 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | you seem to be expecting a level of specificity that is unachievable for this type of discussion | 14:07:58 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | * isn't that within the bounds of normal human interactions? | 14:08:02 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | we're necessarily having miscommunications, and different views of the world, this is not going away | 14:08:27 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | as I have stated above, that isn't the problem. the problem is that we, as a community, do not have a durable way/culture to deal with bad actors. | 14:08:48 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | so they're really empty claims then | 14:08:49 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | Jonas Chevalier: I very strongly get the impression that you are making no effort to actually understand the problem, and are rather looking for something that lets you dismiss the claims and "move on" | 14:09:27 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | not at all | 14:09:46 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | then why are you so quick to jump to "they are empty claims then" while barely giving me any opportunity to clarify anything, and while the discussion is about systemic problems that you seem unwilling to recognize because they don't fit your very specific and immediate frame of what constitutes a 'problem'? | 14:10:28 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | ok we're back into rhetoric territory | 14:10:52 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | it's clear that you would prefer for there not to be conflict on this topic, and that is no different for me | 14:10:55 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | but that doesn't make the problem go away | 14:11:00 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | please explain the systemic issues then | 14:11:15 |
