| 4 Nov 2021 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town |
but interacting with other contributors is still a key part of this
this is correct, and it's actually a big part of why I said "everything is political"
| 01:30:39 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | technical contributions aren't just posting some code, it involves interaction and collaboration, and personality and ideology will shine through in that | 01:31:14 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | which is why it is a problem when you have, say, a misogynist contributor | 01:31:33 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | because they will end up making women feel unsafe in contributing to the project | 01:32:07 |
 jonringer |
relating to the ideas or strategies of a particular party or group in politics.
If you want to take that in context of nix being a party or group, then sure.
| 01:32:16 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | just in ways that are more subtle than a 'formal' political discussion | 01:32:26 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | okay, it's 02:32, I really need to go to bed. | 01:32:56 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | goodnight all | 01:33:09 |
 tomberek | I'm not sure what the original point/argument/claim was. | 01:33:50 |
| tomberek | That objective moderation doesn't work? | 01:34:10 |
| jonringer | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
because they will end up making women feel unsafe in contributing to the project sure, but that behavior will manifest it ways that can be addressed and dealt with, either through arbitration or moderation | 01:34:32 |
| tomberek | Or that attempts at it backfire? | 01:34:44 |
| tomberek | Oh, there is something interesting in the "Ignores are not a solution for abuse" comment. | 01:39:13 |
| tomberek | Would that be a reasonable way to think about what reaches the level of harassment/abuse? If it can be reasonably ignored? If it can, then it is not - and vice versa? | 01:40:50 |
 moritz.hedtke | In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org
Would that be a reasonable way to think about what reaches the level of harassment/abuse? If it can be reasonably ignored? If it can, then it is not - and vice versa? I think the "white european males" of us could probably think like that but that privilege probably doesn't have everybody. | 01:43:29 |
| moritz.hedtke | I think it boils down to what can be ignored which is extremely subjective | 01:44:04 |
| jonringer | In reply to @moritz.hedtke:matrix.org
I think it boils down to what can be ignored which is extremely subjective obviously harassment and malicious shouldn't be tolerated. However, I've rarely seen this outside of very rare incidents | 01:45:27 |
| moritz.hedtke | In reply to @jonringer:matrix.org
obviously harassment and malicious shouldn't be tolerated. However, I've rarely seen this outside of very rare incidents That's what we all (hopefully) can agree on | 01:45:58 |
| jonringer | And generally they are just an individual acting out. Not some greater plot of privileged individuals to oppress a minority | 01:46:26 |
| tomberek | The subjectivity is somewhat bounded. It is not completely arbitrary. | 01:47:01 |
| moritz.hedtke | In reply to @jonringer:matrix.org
And generally they are just an individual acting out. Not some greater plot of privileged individuals to oppress a minority I don't want to speak for others but I think there are people who would disagree (but are sleeping) | 01:47:46 |
| jonringer | I think there's way too much generalization going on and any meaning is being lost by shades of gray | 01:47:49 |
| jonringer | I'm absolutely sure there are people who disagree. And I'm sure I'm part of that "privileged" oppressor group | 01:48:30 |
| moritz.hedtke | In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org
The subjectivity is somewhat bounded. It is not completely arbitrary. Sure but not bounded enough that I think it's easy to write down withouth everyone disagreeing | 01:49:22 |
| tomberek | What is reasonable is something that develops over time. | 01:50:00 |
| moritz.hedtke | Which seems like one of the main problem of all the efforts here. That there always are (lots) of people who won't like the approach taken | 01:50:06 |
| tomberek | Policy, banning, moderation, community discussions, etc all move that line back and forth. | 01:50:50 |
| tomberek | It establishes over time a standard of what is considered reasonable to ignore, and what rises above that and needs to be dealt with in some other way. | 01:52:22 |
| moritz.hedtke | So no RFC? :-) | 01:54:20 |
| tomberek | The underlying disagreement seems to be that people vehemently don't see that line drawn close to each other, or in what direction it should move, or even how that moving should take place. | 01:54:21 |
