| 3 Nov 2021 |
 jonringer | * And doubling down on his efforts (automated reviews, pedantic review comments, etc) just made things worse. | 20:32:56 |
 ryblade | ah, i understand. | 20:33:34 |
 abathur | some people get annoyed when someone merges a PR for a package they're listed as the maintainer of without waiting for their review | 20:33:57 |
| abathur | doubly so when it breaks the package or some of its consumers | 20:34:07 |
| jonringer | Not everyone values minimal responses. Him being short, was perceived as rude: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/120729#discussion_r621617554
a) You're lacking context. Sandro has previously been petty and rude when reviewing PRs I've made. Please don't jump in and assume things. While I have him blocked, GitHub doesn't actually do anything other than show this to him, filter notification e-mails to me, and hide random pieces of the UI. Since Sandro hasn't taken the hint by now that maybe it's impolite to continue harassing someone who has asked them to stop doing so, I think actually giving him a response at all is being more courteous than is necessary.
| 20:34:43 |
| ryblade | sounds like his heart may have been in the right place even if his actions were not... god, i hate these tough calls. | 20:34:57 |
| ryblade | judging by deviant's description of github's block feature, sounds like github itself may need a few pull requests of its own :D | 20:35:24 |
| ryblade | anyway, i gotta get out of here, i'm late for something, this discussion is too damn interesting | 20:35:56 |
| ryblade | it seems like at least clear heads are prevailing for now, i feel reassured coming here and talking with all of you :) | 20:37:40 |
| jonringer | And that's not why I'm a big fan of the block "feature". Sure, if someone is targeting you specifically, then you can still use the platform. But when it's just someone's involvement, and they are acting in bad faith.... then... something failed and someone felt it was necessary to go the blocking route instead of some arbitration | 20:38:09 |
| jonringer | * And that's not why I'm not a big fan of the block "feature". Sure, if someone is targeting you specifically, then you can still use the platform. But when it's just someone's involvement, and they are acting in bad faith.... then... something failed and someone felt it was necessary to go the blocking route instead of some arbitration | 20:38:18 |
| jonringer | * And that's not why I'm not a big fan of the block "feature". Sure, if someone is targeting you specifically, then you can still use the platform if you block them. But when it's just someone's involvement, and they are acting in bad faith.... then... something failed and someone felt it was necessary to go the blocking route instead of some arbitration | 20:38:29 |
| jonringer | * And that's not why I'm not a big fan of the block "feature". Sure, if someone is targeting you specifically, then you can still use the platform if you block them. But when it's just someone's involvement, and they are acting in good faith.... then... something failed and someone felt it was necessary to go the blocking route instead of some arbitration | 20:38:39 |
| jonringer | * And that's not why I'm not a big fan of the block "feature". Sure, if someone is targeting you specifically, then you can still use the platform if you block them. But when it's just someone's involvement, and they are acting in good faith.... then... something failed when someone felt it was necessary to go the blocking route instead of some arbitration | 20:39:02 |
| ryblade | in the case of those who abuse blocking they're only really hurting their own projects, imo | 20:39:19 |
| ryblade | * in the case of those who abuse blocking to shut out everyone they dislike, they're only really hurting their own projects by shutting out talent, imo | 20:40:01 |
|  danielle joined the room. | 20:42:07 |
| ryblade | take care jonringer, and good luck with your draft | 20:51:12 |
|  andi- joined the room. | 21:06:16 |
|  piegames joined the room. | 21:06:17 |
| piegames set a profile picture. | 22:01:29 |
|  gal_bolle joined the room. | 23:14:42 |
| 4 Nov 2021 |
|  Ellie joined the room. | 00:34:20 |
|  Jan Tojnar joined the room. | 00:37:32 |
|  joepie91 🏳️🌈 joined the room. | 00:51:34 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | I will have to dig through the full history here at some later time, but some immediate comments based on a skim of it:
- yes, everything is political. if you believe it's not, then that just means that you are personally in a position where you can afford to ignore the politics of a community, and that is not representative for other people's experiences.
- ignores are not and never will be a structural solution for abusive behaviour within a community. it creates missing stairs and just means that you are expecting everybody in a community to work around someone who is consistently misbehaving, ie. you are asking everybody else to do free emotional labour to compensate for one individual failing to be empathic towards others
- "explicit hard-and-fast rules" are not a desirable thing to have, as they fail both ways; they will fail to cover undesirable behaviours, while also 'overcatching' unproblematic behaviour that Technically breaks a rule. in practice, the only people benefiting from 'explicit hard-and-fast rules' are people who like to rulelawyer and essentially exploit said rules to their benefit, using them as cover for being abusive in a Technically Allowed way. the unfortunate reality is that all forms of community management always are and always will be subjective to some degree, because humans and social dynamics are complicated, to the point that even literal nation states have failed to succeed at defining all acceptable behaviours upfront.
none of this is really new information, all of this has already been brought up in the github thread, but for some reason some people still seem under the impression that the 'popular wisdom' of 'objective' tech community moderation is accurate, when it's extremely not
| 00:58:40 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | (and basically every single tech community that's "objectively" moderated ends up being an absolute hellhole for anyone who isn't a white cishet guy) | 00:59:46 |
| * joepie91 🏳️🌈 is rapidly growing tired of the same non-arguments being brought up over and over again | 01:00:47 |
| jonringer |
yes, everything is political
How is a version bump to a package political?
| 01:11:17 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | that does not look like a good-faith question to me | 01:11:40 |
