| 3 Nov 2021 |
 @jonringer:matrix.org | In reply to @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life
The initial narrative matters precious little, because if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. Or centimetre, and kilometre if we want to use internationally inclusive language I would like to keep extrapolation out of the discussion, I've already spent too much time on off-topic discussions in off-topic | 18:53:58 |
 @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | That's fair | 18:54:09 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | Let's evaluate this in a vacuum then | 18:54:19 |
 @ryblade:matrix.org | very fair | 18:54:26 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | I would really like to get to a point that we can all agree that these are all values that we hold dear in CoC. And move on from there. | 18:54:29 |
| @ryblade:matrix.org | apologies | 18:54:32 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | That sounds good to me | 18:54:38 |
 @infinisil:matrix.org | I'd appreciate if we aren't labeling people as "them". We won't find a resolution on any issue if it's "us" against "them". What we need is to better understand where everybody is coming from, what their arguments and experiences are, to find out where the differences lie and to find a good compromise | 18:54:46 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | Explicitly, I think the fear that me and ryblade share is of authoritarians. | 18:55:25 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | We could say that instead of "them" | 18:55:34 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | Agreed, first priority should be nixos. It's a technical community, it should be about technology first. Political or cultural support groups are better found elsewher | 18:55:41 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | * Agreed, first priority should be nixos. It's a technical community, it should be about technology first. Political or cultural support groups are better found elsewhere | 18:55:45 |
| @ryblade:matrix.org | { them = [ authoritarians ] } | 18:56:12 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | If people feel like they can't participate with nixos, then obviously that's an issue which effects nixos, regardless of the nature in which they feel denied. | 18:56:22 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | So regarding values. Instead of telling people how to behave or what to do, we can assure them that their freedom to do certain things is protected, and their freedom to do other things which may possibly harm others is not protected | 18:57:13 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | Example, one is free to focus on and work on Nix no matter what | 18:57:27 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | One is not free to incite conflict which is unrelated to Nix in Nix-adjacent spaces | 18:57:38 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | Further to that, interactions should be focused on work and common interests and not things that are sure to cause enmity/antipathy | 18:59:37 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | The "everything is political" folks try to push that everywhere, and I'm 100% confident that it's a terrible idea to enable that | 18:59:56 |
| @ryblade:matrix.org | In reply to @infinisil:matrix.org
I'd appreciate if we aren't labeling people as "them". We won't find a resolution on any issue if it's "us" against "them". What we need is to better understand where everybody is coming from, what their arguments and experiences are, to find out where the differences lie and to find a good compromise while i fundamentally agree (rule 10 and all), them is less characters to type. as a person with RSI, it's not very accommodating to have to type "authoritarian" in full every single time if context has already been previously established. | 19:00:35 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | That's a shortcut to authoritarianism, which I feel the CoC should do its best to safeguard against | 19:00:37 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | To be fair, we have firmly established an antecedent for that pronoun | 19:01:09 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | If only we had pinned messages | 19:01:24 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | * To be fair, we have firmly established an antecedent for that pronoun/demonstrative/whatever | 19:01:42 |
| @infinisil:matrix.org | ryblade: I'd rather we don't use labels like these, they aren't very representative of the individuals that are grouped under it. Some people might agree with some views of label "foo", but don't with others. Some people might be 50% "foo" but not more. Some people might be "foo" but have had experiences that would convince anybody to be "foo" | 19:02:03 |
| @ryblade:matrix.org | i've already had to take quite a lot of pain medication today, i'm going to get woozy if i have to do it your way... but alright. gulp | 19:02:39 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | Are you confident about that infinisil? Based on what little I've seen of the behaviour of the people we perceive as authoritarian the "label" is actually an accurate descriptor | 19:03:12 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | Having read the RFC makes that even more obvious | 19:03:21 |
| @gallantchef:matrix.foxears.life | If we become unable to use accurate descriptors to refer to things or persons, then what is even the point of defining terms | 19:03:49 |
| @infinisil:matrix.org | GallantChef: It's my experience with labels in general, but that's just my experience, totally fair if you can't confirm that (getting meta!) | 19:04:07 |
