| 5 Nov 2021 |
 Irenes | disproportionately, the people who have positive feelings towards the subject are going to be the ones who flee | 02:45:30 |
| Irenes | and this would be a small effect if it were one round of communication | 02:45:43 |
| Irenes | but when it iterates for hundreds of rounds, the effect magnifies | 02:45:51 |
| Irenes | I've seen simulations of this, but that's beside the point | 02:46:08 |
| Irenes | I doubt I could find them again anyway | 02:46:27 |
| Irenes | and it's not like I dug into the numbers. what I'm saying is how I model my experience though. | 02:47:03 |
 tomberek | Okay, so I'll try to summarize. Let me know if I'm going in the wrong direction. | 02:48:10 |
| Irenes | go ahead | 02:48:16 |
| tomberek | Due to the inherent bias for social participation with negative emotions, support and positive feelings should be especially valued as it is rare and comes with inherent risks. <- is that close? | 02:50:34 |
| Irenes | well that's a conclusion I do believe but wasn't actually trying to convey, since I think it's tangential at best | 02:50:57 |
| Irenes | this was all in answer to how I came to the conclusion that the reception the RFC got was mostly positive | 02:51:18 |
| Irenes | this is part of the model I carry in my head at all times when evaluating what's actually happening in any large-scale discussion | 02:51:35 |
| Irenes | because it affects how I weight the various types of interaction that I mentioned earlier | 02:52:03 |
| tomberek | Okay, thanks. I hope that means I'm closer to understanding you. | 02:52:04 |
| Irenes | thank you. same here. | 02:52:30 |
| tomberek | I'll agree that it is difficult to understand how the community thinks. And that there are a multitude of complications and issues that we may not even be aware of that influence the social interactions that take place. I did not consider a bias toward negativity would be very strong in this case. I do think that we saw "fight", leading to escalation and other problems. But that we don't see the "flight" until it turns into "fight". | 02:56:26 |
| Irenes | I agree with all of that, yes. | 02:57:04 |
| tomberek | My characterization of the recent controversial bans have been that someone felt that they were stuck in a corner, and then lashed out in a fight response. In modern society, we should control ourselves, but also attempt to understand. | 02:58:52 |
| Irenes | I think that's probably true, on all counts, although of course I don't know what's in people's hearts | 02:59:59 |
| tomberek | Okay, I think i have a much better understanding now. We still don't agree on the proper way forward, but it's a start. | 03:00:48 |
| Irenes | I'm really glad to hear that | 03:01:06 |
| Irenes | this was a lot for one night, but I look forward to continued discussion | 03:01:20 |
| tomberek | I peppered you with questions to dig into the issues. I specifically avoided trying to argue or counterattack. The intent was to find out how and why we come to different conclusions when looking at the same situation. Thank you for participating and being the questioned party. It helped provide some clarity. | 03:04:21 |
| Irenes | yes, I think you clearly showed a lot of restraint; I can imagine what you might say in response to a lot of the stuff I said | 03:05:58 |
| Irenes | I really do appreciate it a lot. | 03:06:20 |
 ash (it/its) 🏳️⚧️ | jonringer: i'd just like to say that i personally reached out to sandro on multiple occasions to try and help him understand where his conflicts with other community members are coming from along with offering more constructive ways to move forward | 03:19:59 |
| ash (it/its) 🏳️⚧️ | specifically one of those things is i offered multiple times to coauthor an rfc with him to address the formatting PRs he's been making in a broader sense | 03:20:58 |
| ash (it/its) 🏳️⚧️ | he refused me because he "didn't have the time" | 03:21:08 |
| ash (it/its) 🏳️⚧️ | i don't really appreciate the accusation that you're the only one who has tried to address these issues with empathy | 03:22:40 |
 jonringer | Do you remember when? because I'm talking prior to Jan 2021 | 03:25:09 |
