| 4 Nov 2021 |
 joepie91 🏳️🌈 | not exactly. | 18:10:15 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | I am an activist, so yes, I am thinking a lot about 'rewriting society', if that's the terminology you want to use. but in this specific discussion, that is not my goal | 18:10:40 |
 @zimbatm:numtide.com | it's reminiscent of communism, except that people are categorized by minorities instead of classes | 18:10:58 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | in the case of NixOS specifically, it's not about changing society through NixOS; it's about structuring NixOS to shield itself from the fallout of society | 18:11:05 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | which is to say, accepting that there are injustices and power imbalances in society, and those will filter through in interactions with people who live in that society, and so to maintain a healthy community which does not suffer from those exact same injustices, you need to actively watch for and counteract those things | 18:12:04 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | it's more putting a piece of cardboard under a wobbly table, than trying to reform the table manufacturing industry | 18:12:36 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | instead of just being happy to be part of this community, the request is that it also becomes an instrument for the better good | 18:12:43 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | as I have just said, it's not. | 18:12:57 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | I certainly work towards a 'better good' on a personal level, as an activist. but "NixOS community management" does not play a role in that | 18:13:46 |
 @jonringer:matrix.org | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
as I have just said, it's not. For RFC 98, it is. Language like "social norms" definitely give a "leverage NixOS as a platform to enact an agenda" | 18:13:58 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | NixOS community management is about the NixOS community | 18:14:04 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
as I have just said, it's not. * For RFC 98, it is. Language like "social norms" definitely gives a "leverage NixOS as a platform to enact an agenda" | 18:14:05 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | * For RFC 98, it is. Language like "social norms" definitely gives a "leverage NixOS as a platform to enact an agenda" connotation | 18:14:27 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | jonringer: social norms are a completely normal part of any kind of community management. I'm honestly not sure why you're seeing more in it than that | 18:14:50 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | like, the "house rules" at your local amateur soccer club serve the exact same purpose | 18:15:18 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
jonringer: social norms are a completely normal part of any kind of community management. I'm honestly not sure why you're seeing more in it than that Yes, and I'm defining the social norms in RFC 114. Not leaving it up to interpretation by an oligarchy. | 18:15:27 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | RFC 98 is, again, explicitly non-hierarchical. "oligarchy" is a very strange choice of words | 18:15:51 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org |
noun: oligarchy; plural noun: oligarchies
a small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution.
| 18:16:24 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | yes, it is a hierarchical structure | 18:16:34 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | RFC 98 explicitly seeks to avoid these | 18:16:39 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | now if your issue is that it has a hidden hierarchy in it, that'd certainly be a valid concern to raise and try to address | 18:16:46 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | but it makes no sense to dismiss a non-hierarchical RFC in its entirety on the basis that "I don't want a hierarchy" | 18:17:07 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | moderation team is an instance of oligarchy. Although, may have political connotation depending on reader | 18:17:55 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | no, it's not. for something to be an oligarchy, the control needs to be absolute | 18:18:15 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | at least for all practical purposes | 18:18:24 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | which is, again, a thing that only exists in hierarchical organizations | 18:18:34 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | No, it doesn't. Just need to project control | 18:18:39 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | the role of the moderation team in RFC 98 is to be stewards of the community, not controllers of it | 18:18:52 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | Within the nixos community. communication is paramount. The ability to remove someone's voice in the community is essentially control over them | 18:19:03 |
| @zimbatm:numtide.com | I want to make clear that there are two different goals: "acceptance of LGBT", which I am very much in favor for, and this ^ ideology, which in my mind, is counter-productive to the first goal | 18:19:16 |
