24 Nov 2021 |
joepie91 🏳️🌈 | however, most of my data is from conflicts in a somewhat technical context | 10:29:02 |
joepie91 🏳️🌈 | where "not being personally close to something" is reliably an option | 10:29:14 |
joepie91 🏳️🌈 | it gets messier on non-technical topics | 10:29:19 |
@zimbatm:numtide.com | yeah I don't know either Irenes. It seems like right now we're in a situation with very few laws, but relatively good/healthy common practices | 10:29:59 |
Irenes | yeah | 10:30:12 |
joepie91 🏳️🌈 | like for example, that would reliably work for a conflict about flakes, but I wouldn't be so sure for a conflict about whether something is a bigoted comment | 10:30:14 |
Irenes | I just want to make sure that situation persists | 10:30:17 |
Irenes | and also that it actually includes our minorities, because I will tell you that if something doesn't get passed, a lot of people are going to give up on Nix | 10:30:50 |
Irenes | doesn't necessarily have to be 98, just has to be something that works | 10:31:00 |
Irenes | we've all seen this play out in other places, places less worth trying to save | 10:31:24 |
Irenes | I personally have an almost infinite amount of patience | 10:31:35 |
Irenes | but I'm an anomaly | 10:31:40 |
@zimbatm:numtide.com | yeah, I strongly believe that everybody should be able to participate in the project, without having to fear personal attacks | 10:31:40 |
Irenes | yeah | 10:31:44 |
@zimbatm:numtide.com | it's weird to me we even have to specify this, and make it a thing | 10:32:33 |
@zimbatm:numtide.com | another thing that also works quite well is leadership by example. It's one of those "what would jesus do" kind of situation :p | 10:34:16 |
Irenes | it's no longer weird to me but it's incredibly tiring | 10:34:29 |
Irenes | sur | 10:34:34 |
Irenes | e | 10:34:35 |
Irenes | yes | 10:34:35 |
@zimbatm:numtide.com | it seems like those are different pillars of a healthy community | 10:34:37 |
Irenes | that's what's gotten us so far | 10:34:39 |
Irenes | and uh | 10:34:40 |
Irenes | leadership by example is a core pillar of the RFC as it's intended | 10:34:52 |
Irenes | that's why it does the whole tying it to leadership development thing | 10:35:00 |
Irenes | and explains how community team members are expected to hold themselves to the highest standard and be examples | 10:35:16 |
Irenes | I get that we need to formalize stuff more and that's fine, but that's already the core idea of it | 10:36:19 |
@zimbatm:numtide.com | maybe it takes more than one RFC to get this right | 10:37:27 |
joepie91 🏳️🌈 | Jonas Chevalier: one other aspect that I believe is important if we want de-escalation to be an integral part of the community culture, is that people truly realize that everybody they talk to has their own complex life and background and experiences, experiences that may be difficult to convey to someone else but are no less true because of that.
this kind of ties into "assume good faith", but I think it's something that needs to be highlighted explicitly, because many people (in general, not specific to NixOS) have a tendency of treating other people in chatrooms almost like faceless bots, someone whose entire personality and life consists only of that which they can observe externally, and those external behaviours are viewed only in the context of their own personal experiences.
and that leads to de-escalation failures in many cases; ranging from assumptions of "they hold bigoted views so they must be intentionally malicious" to "they say their life is so much harder but I think they're just seeking attention" to, in the worse cases, "you're just mentally ill". all because people are not really willing or prepared to consider that someone may legitimately arrive at a different conclusion than them just because they are experiencing the world from a different perspective
| 10:37:35 |
@zimbatm:numtide.com | we should offer meditation courses as part of the training :D | 10:38:24 |