| 22 Nov 2021 |
 @ryblade:matrix.org | and block evasion would certainly be an example of when moderators need to step in, because moderators have access to more "nuclear options" compared to individuals, such as range-banning. | 23:22:42 |
 Irenes | I mean, I do think that even in an ideal world blocking needs to exist. | 23:22:47 |
| @ryblade:matrix.org | in an ideal world, i'd have a third faucet next to my hot and cold that dispenses maple syrup :) | 23:23:21 |
| Irenes | even in settings where someone might naively suggest that since the purpose is heavily constrained and there are other mechanisms to escalate, it shouldn't be | 23:23:27 |
| Irenes | the best example I know of is people blocking coworkers on Slack | 23:23:41 |
| Irenes | you "shouldn't" need to, but sometimes your coworker is also your abusive ex who refuses to leave you alone and is protected by HR | 23:23:58 |
| Irenes | especially in large organizations | 23:24:06 |
| Irenes | no system should presume itself to be perfect | 23:24:22 |
| Irenes | I hate to compare mod teams to HR because the latter is an extension of corporate hegemony, and the former doesn't need to be, but they do serve analogous functions here | 23:25:05 |
| Irenes | neither mod teams nor HR should presume themselves to be infallible, there always have to be individual remedies also, for the things they get wrong | 23:25:24 |
| Irenes | or for people who just prefer individual remedies | 23:25:35 |
| Irenes | I feel like the maple syrup faucet would clog up instantly, but it's certainly a better idea than the soup pipe :D I want one | 23:26:03 |
 @piegames:matrix.org | In reply to @irenes:matrix.org
or for people who just prefer individual remedies This. I've blocked a few peoples just because I absolutely can't stand them and don't want to interact with them on any level anymore. This does not mean that it would be right to ban them from the whole project just because we happen to work on the same software. | 23:26:41 |
| @ryblade:matrix.org | In reply to @piegames:matrix.org
This. I've blocked a few peoples just because I absolutely can't stand them and don't want to interact with them on any level anymore. This does not mean that it would be right to ban them from the whole project just because we happen to work on the same software. hear hear | 23:27:10 |
| Irenes | I agree | 23:27:51 |
| Irenes | like notionally the softer remedy would be having a third party talk to both of you and try to work things out, but | 23:28:17 |
| Irenes | that isn't always appropriate either | 23:28:21 |
| Irenes | and we get that | 23:28:23 |
| @ryblade:matrix.org | In reply to @irenes:matrix.org
like notionally the softer remedy would be having a third party talk to both of you and try to work things out, but problem with that is if one party perceives themselves to be the "losing" party, out come the accusations of political bias or taking sides... that can get ugly fast. | 23:29:21 |
| @piegames:matrix.org | In reply to @irenes:matrix.org
that isn't always appropriate either Moreover, it isn't always worth it. Sometimes you just agree to disagree, decide that it's best to keep at mutual distance, and then move on. I don't need to be friends with everybody on the internet. | 23:29:21 |
 @abathur:matrix.org | this is a very not-baked thought without much consideration of Nth-order consequences (it's something I've considered implementing in the context of game moderation, where you've got a fairly ~closed system--not sure it's compatible with an open community of peers...) that part of good moderation is creating the ~paper trail without much regard for whether it resulted in action | 23:29:42 |
 @hexa:lossy.network | man, I wish i could bookmark locations in the text I want to read after I messed up my readmarker | 23:30:21 |
| Irenes | yeah. | 23:30:34 |
| Irenes | I mean | 23:30:35 |
| Irenes | so like | 23:30:36 |
| Irenes | this is what I meant about the extension of corporate hegemony thing | 23:30:47 |
| Irenes | if the team's goal is to protect the status quo | 23:30:55 |
| @piegames:matrix.org | In reply to @hexa:lossy.network
man, I wish i could bookmark locations in the text I want to read after I messed up my readmarker Quick. Go in offline mode on your phone and hope that the old read marker hasn't synced yet :D | 23:30:59 |
| Irenes | then any injustice embodied in the status quo is also defended | 23:31:05 |
| Irenes | and that means the team will always be biased towards defensive stuff like, yes, creating a paper trail | 23:31:26 |
