| 7 Nov 2021 |
 tomberek | The amount of conflict caused by RFC98 will never be considered as a reason to attempt an alternative, but is instead seen as a signal that it is on the right track? | 11:47:08 |
 Ellie | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
tomberek: for me personally: not unless that feedback makes a plausible case for the fundamental approach of RFC 98 being a bad one and that of 114 being better (I'm not speaking for joepie91 🏳️🌈 here) I agree with all joepie91 🏳️🌈 said, and want to not that it doesn't at all preclude improving 98 by incorporating changes raised by constructive criticism | 11:47:13 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town | tomberek: no. the amount of conflict is not a signal to me at all; I do not consider it a relevant metric. what I care about is the type of conflict and the reason for it and, most importantly, whether it is resolvable | 11:47:54 |
 @asymmetric:matrix.dapp.org.uk | tomberek: what joepie91 🏳️🌈 is saying is that RFC98 didn't cause the conflict | 11:48:04 |
| @asymmetric:matrix.dapp.org.uk | and to an extent, i agree with that description | 11:48:37 |
| @asymmetric:matrix.dapp.org.uk | even though some of the language did cause quite some controversy | 11:48:49 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | so far, most of the conflict that I have seen looks resolvable to me, and indeed I have been putting in a lot of work to resolve chunks of it - and my conclusion from that is that, overall, we are on a positive trajectory with RFC 98, even if we are definitely not at the end yet | 11:49:05 |
| @asymmetric:matrix.dapp.org.uk | so it's not 100% clear-cut imo | 11:49:10 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | also, I should probably note that the model proposed in RFC 98 is definitely different from what I usually do when I get brought in as a moderator to clean up a community that has gone off the deep end - but from my observations so far, I believe that the NixOS community is in a healthy enough place that 98 can be made to work to roughly everybody's satisfaction | 11:50:51 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | had I considered it to be unresolvable, I probably would have been arguing for a very different moderation model :) | 11:51:09 |
| @asymmetric:matrix.dapp.org.uk | could someone link to relevant posts of what's happening in the Scala community? | 11:51:15 |
| @asymmetric:matrix.dapp.org.uk | it seems to come up frequently as a comparison | 11:51:27 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | asymmetric: this is the main one: https://contributors.scala-lang.org/t/politics-safety-and-the-future-of-scala/5317 | 11:51:28 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | asymmetric: a bit of additonal context: https://twitter.com/travisbrown/status/1456490238948356097 | 11:52:20 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | it's very recent history and the cultural background of the Scala community seems to be fairly close to that of NixOS, which is probably why it gets brought up a lot, and certainly why I bring it up | 11:53:15 |
 Irenes | I will say that I do consider the amount of conflict to be a relevant metric | 11:55:32 |
| Irenes | I'm way too tired to try to elaborate | 11:55:40 |
| Irenes | I appreciate everything you're saying joepie and I agree with most of it, except that yes the cost does matter | 11:56:12 |
| tomberek | Perhaps my use of "amount" was wrong, but my previous question was a bit better: So no amount of concerns or feedback that is considered legitimate and real would be enough to go down the route of 114 instead [or some alternative]? | 11:56:28 |
| Irenes | this is not my first time making decisions that hurt people, or trying to pick the least harmful paths knowing that all paths are harmful and that I can never have anywhere close to enough information to make that decision | 11:56:49 |
| Irenes | but also knowing that inaction is a choice, too, and one that I would be just as culpable for | 11:57:00 |
| Irenes | and because of those accumulated regrets, I'm not willing to say that the attempt should continue forever, or anything along those lines, because that's manifestly untrue | 11:58:22 |
| tomberek | Thank you. | 11:58:58 |
| Irenes | tomberek: please remember that although joepie is helping as a volunteer, he's not an RFC author, and your "how much" question is really one that only the authors can speak to | 11:59:10 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | I'm not saying that there are no terminal conditions either, to be clear. I just measure them in a way other than 'amount', as I mentioned before | 11:59:18 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | * I'm not saying that there are no terminal conditions (for me personally) either, to be clear. I just measure them in a way other than 'amount', as I mentioned before | 11:59:30 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | or maybe 'assess' is a better word than 'measure' here | 11:59:55 |
| Irenes | yeah | 12:00:08 |
| Irenes | I wanted to be direct on this point because I know it's an important one for tomberek | 12:00:19 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | and yeah, I can only answer these kind of questions from the perspective of "under what circumstances would I withdraw my support for 98" | 12:00:20 |
