| 18 Jul 2025 |
 msgilligan | I'm a happy/paying IntelliJ user, but I've heard Kotlin support elsewhere is improving. And you can install IntelliJ Community (and the licensed version too) with Nix if you want. | 00:07:30 |
 @softmoonworld:matrix.org | ohh yeah i can't stand corporate languages at all. i don't like having to commit to anything that disconnects me from everything else | 00:07:54 |
 Infinidoge 🏳️⚧️ | I'm fully aware I can use IntelliJ, I very specifically don't | 00:07:56 |
| Infinidoge 🏳️⚧️ | However Kotlin is only truly supported by IntelliJ, which makes it untenable for me | 00:08:09 |
| msgilligan | Oh yeah, and Kotlin has bootstrappability issues (along with Gradle) that are keeping Debian Gradle back at Gradle 4.4 (with so many patches that it's known as "FrankenGradle") | 00:08:45 |
| Infinidoge 🏳️⚧️ | I haven't tried it since I was using Doom Emacs (I've since switched to Neovim), but it was such a pain trying to get it to work that I instead decided to rewrite everything Kotlin in the template I was trying to use to Java, before later deciding "That isn't worth it" and starting from scratch | 00:09:22 |
| msgilligan | And Java has adopted many of Kotlin's improvements and appears to have narrowed the gap. For me, the biggest thing I miss from Kotlin in Java is operator overloading (for numeric types) but I think we'll start to see that in Java in 2-4 years. | 00:11:18 |
| msgilligan | One of the things I want to do with Nix is learn how to set up a souped-up version of Neovim with LSP server(s) etc. | 00:14:26 |
| Infinidoge 🏳️⚧️ | Nixvim might be up your alley :) | 00:16:42 |
| Infinidoge 🏳️⚧️ | I know there is another similar project, but Nixvim is what I use | 00:16:55 |
| msgilligan | Can I use it in Home Manager on macOS? One of my other goals for using Nix is to migrate more of my stuff to Linux from macOS and Nix and Home Manager allows me to straddle the two as I'm migrating. | 00:18:05 |
| Infinidoge 🏳️⚧️ | The 2 things I personally want for Java is operator overloading and the removal of type erasure | 00:18:14 |
| Infinidoge 🏳️⚧️ | Type erasure is such a pain | 00:18:21 |
| Infinidoge 🏳️⚧️ | In reply to @msgilligan:matrix.org
Can I use it in Home Manager on macOS? One of my other goals for using Nix is to migrate more of my stuff to Linux from macOS and Nix and Home Manager allows me to straddle the two as I'm migrating. Should be able to! | 00:18:41 |
| msgilligan | Yes, type erasure is one of the "original sins" of Java (though it happened as part of Java 1.5 5) | 00:19:22 |
| msgilligan | I'm also waiting for Valhalla (which will allow value-types and more compact memory organization -- it should really help appropriately written Java apps to use a lot less memory) | 00:20:50 |
| msgilligan | Note that you can use FFM to define memory "layouts" that store data in a more packed ("flat") format and provide accessors to pull things out (like you can do in C++) | 00:21:43 |
| msgilligan | You don't have to be calling native code to use this feature, you can just use it for memory optimization if you want/need. | 00:22:04 |
| msgilligan | Thanks, I added a comment to my home.nix reminding me to migrate from programs.neovim to programs.nixvim! | 01:06:35 |
| Infinidoge 🏳️⚧️ | Enjoy o7 | 01:07:06 |
| Infinidoge 🏳️⚧️ | It's helped me a lot, as otherwise I would spent far too much time tinkering with Neovim to figure out the LSPs | 01:07:25 |
| msgilligan | My exact worry. I don't have much invested in my current configuration so it will be easy to switch. | 01:08:18 |
 samasaur | i find that the native way to do it is not that hard | 01:08:50 |
| samasaur | like it's really wonky but it's mostly just boilerplate that you copy once | 01:09:03 |
| samasaur | though i haven't actually tried nixvim | 01:09:11 |
| Infinidoge 🏳️⚧️ | * It's helped me a lot, as otherwise I would spend far too much time tinkering with Neovim to figure out the LSPs | 01:09:17 |
| samasaur | and also i learned last week that the way you set up LSPs has changed in 0.11 out from under me and I still haven't gotten around to swapping over | 01:09:31 |
| samasaur | hmm maybe i should try nixvim | 01:09:45 |
| Infinidoge 🏳️⚧️ | My Nixvim-based config for reference: https://github.com/Infinidoge/universe/blob/master/users/modules/global/neovim.nix | 01:10:06 |
| 19 Jul 2025 |
|  vog joined the room. | 20:04:37 |
