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Nixpkgs Architecture Team

229 Members
https://github.com/nixpkgs-architecture, weekly public meetings on Wednesday 15:00-16:00 UTC at https://meet.jit.si/nixpkgs-architecture53 Servers

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18 Jul 2023
@roberthensing:matrix.orgRobert Hensing (roberth)I'll stop19:00:55
21 Jul 2023
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27 Jul 2023
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2 Aug 2023
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5 Aug 2023
@phaer:matrix.orgphaer Hello! As we are suspending the pkg-modules WG (https://github.com/nixpkgs-architecture/pkgs-modules/pull/32), I'd like to apply for the NAT as outlined in https://github.com/nixpkgs-architecture/#joining-the-team. I am primarily interested in the module systems, but also curios where https://github.com/nixpkgs-architecture/issues/issues/5 will take us after RFC-140 :) My github account is @phaer, mail in profile. Not entirely sure about the new meeting schedule, now that it's monthly meeting?07:48:37
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6 Aug 2023
@hsngrmpf:matrix.orgDavHau

Hello, I would like to become a member of the NAT.

As maintainer of dream2nix, improving the architecture of nixpkgs is in my interest because much of my project is based on things in nixpkgs and the quality of integration and UX depends on the architecture of nixpkgs. Given that my work is focused on alternative ways to use nix outside the nixpkgs bubble, I think I can bring a valuable perspective to the team.

While my work in the NAT itself is not directly sponsored by a company, dream2nix is sponsored by NLNet and customer projects, and therefore I have an ongoing interest being involved here, as this potentially simplifies my work.

Specifically I was recently focusing on alternative uses of the nixos module system, and would like to continue working on this while getting feedback from the team.

13:55:23
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7 Aug 2023
@roberthensing:matrix.orgRobert Hensing (roberth)

TIL!

new meeting schedule, now that it's a monthly meeting?

Seems like it will need an update then.

07:53:55
@phaer:matrix.orgphaer
In reply to @roberthensing:matrix.org

TIL!

new meeting schedule, now that it's a monthly meeting?

Seems like it will need an update then.

Tuesdays at 16:30, just monthly now. Noticed that it's in the public calendar already after I've posted https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=b9o52fobqjak8oq8lfkhg3t0qg%40group.calendar.google.com
09:09:58
@phaer:matrix.orgphaer
In reply to @roberthensing:matrix.org

TIL!

new meeting schedule, now that it's a monthly meeting?

Seems like it will need an update then.

* Tuesdays at 16:30, just monthly now. Noticed that it's in the public calendar already after I posted https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=b9o52fobqjak8oq8lfkhg3t0qg%40group.calendar.google.com
09:10:14
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisilYeah let's try to find a new time after this Tuesdays meeting :)09:10:45
@adis:blad.isadisbladis
In reply to @hsngrmpf:matrix.org

Hello, I would like to become a member of the NAT.

As maintainer of dream2nix, improving the architecture of nixpkgs is in my interest because much of my project is based on things in nixpkgs and the quality of integration and UX depends on the architecture of nixpkgs. Given that my work is focused on alternative ways to use nix outside the nixpkgs bubble, I think I can bring a valuable perspective to the team.

While my work in the NAT itself is not directly sponsored by a company, dream2nix is sponsored by NLNet and customer projects, and therefore I have an ongoing interest being involved here, as this potentially simplifies my work.

Specifically I was recently focusing on alternative uses of the nixos module system, and would like to continue working on this while getting feedback from the team.

Out of curiosity: What impact does the module system have on eval performance?
09:40:05
@ncfavier:matrix.orgncfavier changed their profile picture.09:41:25
@hsngrmpf:matrix.orgDavHauThis question came up a couple of times and I don't think there is a good answer for it yet. I guess it's time to prepare some benchmark.09:59:10
@hsngrmpf:matrix.orgDavHau

adisbladis:
I now did some benchmark using the current dream2nix core modules for builtins.derivation and mkDerivation.
source: https://github.com/nix-community/dream2nix/tree/main/misc/benchmarks

grmpf@grmpf-nix ~/p/g/d/m/benchmarks (benchmarks)> ./benchmark.sh

Benchmarking 1000x builtins.derivaton via pkg-funcs

real	0m0.542s
user	0m0.207s
sys	0m0.102s

Benchmarking 1000x builtins.derivaton via modules

real	0m2.855s
user	0m2.089s
sys	0m0.324s

Benchmarking 1000x mkDerivation via pkg-funcs

real	0m1.107s
user	0m0.456s
sys	0m0.181s

Benchmarking 1000x mkDerivation via modules

real	0m7.478s
user	0m5.902s
sys	0m0.646s
11:56:18
@hsngrmpf:matrix.orgDavHauNote that this benchmark tests with almost empty derivations and therefore there is almost no overhead in evaluating any input to the derivations which is unreal. In real world scenarios, there should be a constant overhead for the input that must be applied to all benchmarks and therefore should improve the ratio in favor of the module system. Though I don't know if this will be significant or not. We'd have to port something like firefox over to modules in order to test it12:06:49
@ronnypfannschmidt:matrix.org@ronnypfannschmidt:matrix.org

Is there any effort to replace substitute in place scripts with something like scripts + a json file

My particular use case is wanting to easily use python developer and unittesting tool's on the systemd-boot installer script which isn't exactly nice when its hard coded on evaluated instead of loading metadata

18:17:05
@tomberek:matrix.orgtomberekI will be in a plane during the meeting tomorrow. So i'll submit this in absentia: https://github.com/nixpkgs-architecture/issues/issues/21 20:19:02
8 Aug 2023
@roberthensing:matrix.orgRobert Hensing (roberth)I think such scripts can and should be upgraded to small but complete in-tree projects13:35:18
@roberthensing:matrix.orgRobert Hensing (roberth)Do check with the systemd team though13:41:35
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil @room: The next meeting will take place in 25 minutes - meeting link - live stream - meeting notes 14:05:04
@johannes.kirschbauer:scs.ems.host@johannes.kirschbauer:scs.ems.host
In reply to @hsngrmpf:matrix.org
Note that this benchmark tests with almost empty derivations and therefore there is almost no overhead in evaluating any input to the derivations which is unreal.
In real world scenarios, there should be a constant overhead for the input that must be applied to all benchmarks and therefore should improve the ratio in favor of the module system.
Though I don't know if this will be significant or not. We'd have to port something like firefox over to modules in order to test it
Do i read the benchmarks right, when stating that modules for packaging are factor 5-7 slower than the "native" functions. Also tested with empty functions. Which means the real world use cases could be potentially much higher?
14:21:26

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