Nixpkgs Architecture Team | 229 Members | |
| https://github.com/nixpkgs-architecture, weekly public meetings on Wednesday 15:00-16:00 UTC at https://meet.jit.si/nixpkgs-architecture | 51 Servers |
| Sender | Message | Time |
|---|---|---|
| 12 Jul 2023 | ||
| Ah, funny to see that a lot of the subjects touched upon here are questions we also had to think about for Nickel as well. Would be interesting to share some of the ideas and insights on both side. A couple points:
| 07:22:24 | |
| Profpatsch: would you care elaborating on that? CUE seems to take the entirely opposed approach | 07:22:44 | |
| * Profpatsch: would you mind elaborating on that please? CUE seems to take the entirely opposed approach | 07:24:43 | |
| * Ah, funny to see that a lot of the subjects touched upon here are questions we also had to think about for Nickel as well. Would be interesting to share some of the ideas and insights on both sides. A couple points:
| 07:33:02 | |
| 07:46:09 | ||
| yannham: Cue suffers from the same slowness problems as the nixos module system afaik | 08:41:28 | |
| The problem is unscoped merging, aka if you want to figure out whether something exists, you have to potentially search through every module definition | 08:42:25 | |
| Priority is a pretty horrible monoid, because you cannot use laziness to short-circuit | 08:42:43 | |
| compared to e.g. Last | 08:42:54 | |
| (there could always be something with higher priority that the evaluator hasn’t seen yet, so you have to look at absolutely everything) | 08:43:33 | |
| I don’t know how nickel solves this? | 08:43:57 | |
Almost the same story for SOS, the intent was to not remove mkDerivation but delay it to be executed at the very end of the fix-point, thus making packages just ordinary attribute sets available through prev/super, which can be overwritten by using Nix's update operator within Nixpkgs' overlays. | 10:00:03 | |
In reply to @nbp:mozilla.orgHow does this deal with e.g. Python packages? I like the idea but again I don't think this is going to work well until we've foxed our builders | 10:16:18 | |
| Unrelated, but one change I’d like to see is having features be a special attribute set, and each feature ideally carries the information which dependencies it needs. | 10:58:16 | |
| That way static information is available. Question is whether this would be done symbolically (by projecting it out of the fixpoint as is the case now) or by-name (as a string) | 10:59:14 | |
| by flattening python packages under the top-level fix-point. What these python sets are is a custom python package with a set of python packages relying on these. To make it short, this is providing only a different An alternative would be to make inherited inputs. For example:
In which case one could assume that the last scope definition overrides the package inputs, unless override by the user with the update operator. We have many options to choose from. | 11:00:32 | |
These __scope would again be resolved last, only if the name is not explicitly bound on the packages inputs. | 11:01:52 | |
| No I was talking about builders like PythonPackage, not the package set itself | 11:04:10 | |
| Then I do not know, nor see how it would be different than today. | 11:05:14 | |
| Well the situation of today is pretty bad, so I hope it would be different | 11:06:31 | |
| simple paths when | 13:33:53 | |
| RFC is merged 🎉 | 13:46:11 | |
| as of 12 mins ago https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/140#event-9799573690 | 13:46:28 | |
| Yes. | 13:46:39 | |
| * | 13:46:57 | |
| Yes, "just" the implementation work left 😄 | 13:47:50 | |
| https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/237439 | 13:48:08 | |
On the performance matter, it's not really related to modules per se but in general I personally have high hopes in the incremental evaluation approach. It's less of an issue that your evaluation from scratch is slow, under the hypothesis that each new generation is just a small diff from the previous one, and that your interpreter can reuse most of the previous results incrementally. Lazy evaluation turns out to play quite well with incremental evaluation (basically, you can more or less swap the evaluator with a one performing various caching strategies without changing the semantics of the language). But hard to tell before trying this at scale.
I might be misunderstanding, but I feel like it's more of a NixOS module system design decision (put everything in one big fixpoint soup), rather than something inherent to merging as defined e.g. in CUE ? Couldn't you build a more scoped/hierarchical system based on CUE for example (or even in pure Nix)? | 14:59:02 | |
| yannham: Actually, one case where maximal-laziness this would shine a lot is on the nixos/maintainers/option-usages.nix expression, where NixOS evaluation is re-done completely with one option changed, and evaluating whether one option is used as part of the computation. This was one of my assumption, until I realize that the feature got removed :( | 15:25:18 | |
| What is CUE? | 15:26:16 | |